Chestnut Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Has anyone else noted that the benchcrafted packages are a scam a swindle, a package that offers items that aren't necessary to make more off their product? If I'm not going to use the barrel nuts /hardware is there any value to the package? If i have Marc's roubo build are the BC plans of any value? Has any one made their bench wider than 24"? My assembly table currently is 24" and there are countless times where i wish it was just 2" wider. This is only slightly roubo related. Has any one made a Moxon vise and do they find it of value. I'm really tempted to make a taller smaller bench utilizing a moxon vise for joinery tasks. Or to make the modular thing like they show. I want to hit order on the hardware cause i need a decent bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Scam? Is that your opinion or are you questioning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Triebe Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Chestnut said: Has anyone else noted that the benchcrafted packages are a scam? If I'm not going to use the barrel nuts /hardware is there any value to the package? If i have Marc's roubo build are the BC plans of any value? Has any one made their bench wider than 24"? My assembly table currently is 24" and there are countless times where i wish it was just 2" wider. This is only slightly roubo related. Has any one made a Moxon vise and do they find it of value. I'm really tempted to make a taller smaller bench utilizing a moxon vise for joinery tasks. Or to make the modular thing like they show. I want to hit order on the hardware cause i need a decent bench. I bought hardware to make a Moxon vise similar to what Jonathan Katz-Moses' example was in the video, but I haven't built it yet. I'm also committing to building a whole new workbench, and am uncertain that I'll have a huge need for a Moxon, if I build the actual workbench right. But, perhaps it'll still be useful, as it'll raise my platform probably by 6" or so, which could be handy for cutting joinery. And, since I've already purchased the hardware, and the wood costs aren't too high as it's not a particularly big thing- I might as well just do it. I'm debating dimensions on the workbench, too. My current workbench (which is really more of an assembly/outfeed table, and less of a workholding tool, and will be relegated to assembly/outfeed table use once I build the new bench) is something like 33" wide, and it's too big for the space in my shop where it currently sits. I do think I'm going to end up doing something around 26" wide, though. I'm 99% certain that I'm going to be building a Roubo/Nicholson hybrid per the Third Coast Craftsman plans... I'm just waiting for Andy Klein to release his new vises before I dive into the build, I want to make sure that whatever I build is done with those in mind. I'm not wild about the leg vise, so I'm opting against the traditional Roubo with the leg vise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Benchcrafted seems to be a highly regarded company, so I doubt they would be trying to run a scam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Comment removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Triebe Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, drzaius said: Benchcrafted seems to be a highly regarded company, so I doubt they would be trying to run a scam. I think scam was a bad word choice. It just may not be the most cost-effective way to build Marc's version of the Roubo using Benchcrafted hardware- I think they've revised their offerings in the 6-7 years since Marc initially released the Guild project, and they may be pushing more of their own thing now, versus simply catering to people purchasing hardware to go along with the WW Guild project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Just to clarify, you do or don’t want a leg vice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 minute ago, vinnyjojo said: Just to clarify, you do or don’t want a leg vice? Do. Leg vise $369 + tail $295 is < $699 package. Package has some bolts and stuff. Some bolts and stuff don't seem like they are worth $35. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Saw your other questions. If you have the Roubo guild project, no there’s probably no reason to buy more bench plans. If you don’t want the split top, you’ll have to modify a bit, but nothing you can’t handle. If you haven’t read them, I recommend both of Chris Schwartz’s workbench design books. There’s so many different styles with their own pros and cons, as it relates to any given style of work, that you’ll have a pretty darn good idea of what it is you’d like to build and what hardware you think you’ll need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Chestnut said: Removed Removed You decide what you need and what you’ll pay. My guess is most will pay the $35 for one stop convenience. I won’t hold that against them for or you for not. Do what’s smart for you. I don’t think you’ll find any value in BC plans on top of the guild build. I see more guys I follow with bench top moxon “attachments” rather than dedicated benches. The value for many is elevating the moxon above the low bench height. Those joinery benches then tend to be higher and undesirable for most other tasks. Do you really want a bench “too high” for all but joinery? I cannot afford the space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chet Posted January 17, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 If you want help or have questions that is fine but if this thread continues down the road with the tone the OP is creating I will lock it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Steve Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 I wouldn't say they're a scam. I think they make a good product and are committed to quality. I think they're like Lie-Nielsen and Veritas and others in that they've realized there is a market where people will spend extra for quality. I nearly bought their leg vise two years ago, but decided that I was primarily talking myself into it, and bought a 9" eclipse instead and am perfectly happy with it. I want to make a Moxon vise myself as another option to hold stuff. I'll probably just build an accessory model. I may just get the hardware kit from the toolsformakingwood folks, as I don't need fancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, Chet said: If you want help or have questions that is fine but if this thread continues down the road with the tone the OP is creating I will lock it. Way to go. That foot is making you just a tad irritated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 I have a Moxon Vise and I find it most useful when cuting dovetails as it raises the work to a more convenient and less back breaking height. I am sorry that I can't remember his name but there is a gentleman in MN that has the tools and will guide you through making your own. I made one with him at the Lis -Nielson display in St Cloud last year. There was also a chance to make on at Amana 2 years ago and the show is scheduled again this year, I think. About $60 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ronn W said: I have a Moxon Vise and I find it most useful when cuting dovetails as it raises the work to a more convenient and less back breaking height. x2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 I use a knock off of the moxon vise for a lot of stuff. But to raise things to a height for detail work, I built a smaller bench that locks in my shoulder vise and mounts on the big bench, and I can clamp anything I need to that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 23 minutes ago, RichardA said: I use a knock off of the moxon vise for a lot of stuff. But to raise things to a height for detail work, I built a smaller bench that locks in my shoulder vise and mounts on the big bench, and I can clamp anything I need to that. Got pics? I'd like to see the small bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, wtnhighlander said: Got pics? I'd like to see the small bench. I'll look. If not you'll have them tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 9 minutes ago, wtnhighlander said: Got pics? I'd like to see the small bench. It is pretty cool! 4 hours ago, Chet said: If you want help or have questions that is fine but if this thread continues down the road with the tone the OP is creating I will lock it. Pain killers have worn off have they ? Welcome back bud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, wtnhighlander said: Got pics? I'd like to see the small bench. Found'em, gonna send in a PM... I added a piece to the foot, so I could hook in in my shoulder vise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RichardA Posted January 18, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 For those who might be interested. Here's the mini bench I built for doing detail work. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmac Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 Chesnut, hopefully I've addressed all your questions below, along with some rambling with my own opinions. Building my bench, I didn't get Marc's roubo plan, but read Schwartz's book. For anyone building a bench this is must reading in my opinion. He not only takes you through different bench designs, but he takes you through the process of what works for you in a bench. My favorite part of the book was where he goes through procedures you will do on the bench and he gives you different accessories, vises, clamps, etc you can use to complete procedures and he gives the pluses and negatives to each approach. After reading his book I decided on a pattern makers vise, have been very pleased with this decision and it's perfect for a lot of the shaping I do. I decided on a tail vise, don't use that much. I made my table slightly wider, has been a good thing for some projects and others I wish the table was a little narrower. For the width I see the value of the split top, which I didn't do. I opted to use Veritas Wonder Dogs to help secure work pieces and absolutely love the versatility of this accessory. Don't see these dogs talked about much on here but they are a great addition. I want and see a need to add a Moxon vise to my workbench accessories. Made mine out of quartersawn Red Oak, 4" thick. Heavy as anything and still drying out. Still need to reflatten occasionally. I have to say that I agree with Chestnut that once you start buying all the accessories with Marc's roubo the cost gets up there. I understand they are quality products and many here love their bench. I wanted and needed a versatile bench, but I wanted to do projects more than make a bench. My bench was a more streamlined version, does it's job well, costs were minimized, construction was quick, and I am making a lot of projects with it. What I learned through the process was the musts for a bench is it needs to be versatile and heavy, after that it's up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 14 hours ago, Chet said: If you want help or have questions that is fine but if this thread continues down the road with the tone the OP is creating I will lock it. Hmm.. seems a bit quick on the trigger. Not everyone regards bc as a great value. They also have very decent competition in the vise world. What's wrong with discussing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, Brendon_t said: Hmm.. seems a bit quick on the trigger. Not everyone regards bc as a great value. They also have very decent competition in the vise world. What's wrong with discussing it? I removed the comments - Chet was not "quick on the trigger" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post derekcohen Posted January 18, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 19 hours ago, Chestnut said: Has anyone else noted that the benchcrafted packages are a scam a swindle, a package that offers items that aren't necessary to make more off their product? If I'm not going to use the barrel nuts /hardware is there any value to the package? If i have Marc's roubo build are the BC plans of any value? Has any one made their bench wider than 24"? My assembly table currently is 24" and there are countless times where i wish it was just 2" wider. This is only slightly roubo related. Has any one made a Moxon vise and do they find it of value. I'm really tempted to make a taller smaller bench utilizing a moxon vise for joinery tasks. Or to make the modular thing like they show. I want to hit order on the hardware cause i need a decent bench. A few points: 1. Firstly, BC are a highly reputable company with top level components. There are many cheap look-a-likes that may be had for pennies in the dollar, but their questionable quality and limited quality assurance are quickly evident. Lie Nielsen and Award hand planes may look the same, and do a similar task, but we know that they are very different in ays that count. 2. Several years ago I was in the process of designing and building my Roubo-style bench. I was considering building my own end vise. My good friend, Chris Vesper, said he had purchased a BC end vise. I was surprised, as Chris is a top notch machinist and, indeed, one of the premier toolmakers we have. He said to me that he could not produce the vise at the quality level BC build it. I bought one (and it is fantastic, and well-used). 3. For most, the ideal width of a bench is 22". This allows one to work across it .... unless you are a gorilla, and in which case I shall not argue with you 4. The Moxon vise was a game-changer. I built a twin screw into the front of a bench about 20 years ago for dovetailing. This is not the same as a Moxon. The Moxon goes on top of the bench. This raises the work piece up for easier access, and this creates better control. With the dovetailing removed from the face vise duties, a leg vise becomes a quicker and easier way of clamping boards for edge planing. Keep in mind that I am a hand tool-orientated woodworker (although I class myself as blended since I use machines to rough out boards). Work holding is, therefore, of great importance. My Roubo bench is orientated to this end ... I did build my own leg vise with a wooden screw. It has a chain drive (this was the prototype for AYS) .. Regards from Perth Derek 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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