pkinneb Posted April 1, 2019 Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 Hi all looking for some help. While I wait for the taper and painter (my wife) to do their things in the basement I plan on starting on the built ins with the first project being the 1/2 bath vanity. I always try to learn new things with each project so on this one I will, in keeping with the curved theme of the basement, make the vanity with a curved front. I also plan on dying the oak black. Since I have done neither of these in the past here are some questions I could use help with: 1. Any tips for making the curved doors? I plan on doing bent lamination's for the rails and using curved but flat panel insets. I found a build on Guys Woodshop that I will probably follow but any other tips or sources would be much appreciated. 2. Guy made his doors in two pieces I'm thinking I'll make one half moon form and then cut the rails in half for each door, thoughts? I can also use the same form to make the top and bottom of the cabinet face correct? 3. I will be making this look like a piece of furniture so I plan on tiling and putting baseboard down prior to installation, does that sound reasonable? 4. Regarding dying the oak I assume you do this prior to glue up correct? Just use trans tint dye to desired color? Tips for getting even color on all pieces? I will have hardwood as well as plywood panels (sides) on this cabinet. Any other helpful hints will be appreciated Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted April 1, 2019 Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 Wish I could help but everything on you bucket list for this project is still on my "someday" list. Good luck. Pics please. How much of a curve are you comtemplating? I just took time to watch Guy's video. Wow, he has some nice toys $$. That project is a little above my pay grade. Good luck. If you find a spot in the project where 2 hands are not enough - just call me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG Posted April 1, 2019 Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 Look what came in the mail today- latest FWW issue has an article on curved doors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted April 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 33 minutes ago, Ronn W said: Wish I could help but everything on you bucket list for this project is still on my "someday" list. Good luck. Pics please. How much of a curve are you comtemplating? I just took time to watch Guy's video. Wow, he has some nice toys $$. That project is a little above my pay grade. Good luck. If you find a spot in the project where 2 hands are not enough - just call me. I've seen your work he has nothing on you Re the curve thinking like 2-3" from the center to the left and right edges so not a ton. the cabinet will be 30" wide. 8 minutes ago, JohnG said: Look what came in the mail today- latest FWW issue has an article on curved doors. LOL sitting in my in box...I'll chk it out thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdie Posted April 1, 2019 Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 As far as coloring the oak goes, I guess it depends on the joinery you're going to use and whether or not the coloring agent would interfere with your connective product (glue). I would lean toward coloring afterward unless you're concerned about show in the joints. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ronn W Posted April 1, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 1, 2019 2 hours ago, Byrdie said: As far as coloring the oak goes, I guess it depends on the joinery you're going to use and whether or not the coloring agent would interfere with your connective product (glue). I would lean toward coloring afterward unless you're concerned about show in the joints. Is "Connective product" more politically correct than "glue". Just trying to keep up with the times! so now: "You are the connective product that holds us all "in close proximity." I'll shut up now. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chestnut Posted April 2, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 This is going to be interesting. I"m excited to see how you decide to accomplish everything. Are you going to do a vacuum back for the bending or are you going to accomplish it similar to how you did the bending for the jewelry box? My first thought for something that big would be to make a mold out of pink board insulation and vacuum bag to that. Some day i want to use that to make a skateboard. 46 minutes ago, Ronn W said: Is "Connective product" more politically correct than "glue". Just trying to keep up with the times! so now: "You are the connective product that holds us all "in close proximity." I'll shut up now. I first thought of the childhood rhyme "I am an elastic material you are a connective product, what ever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you" 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mick S Posted April 2, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 If I remember correctly, you do not have a vacuum press. This would be a good time to make the investment, IMO. So you're planning on making 5 piece curved doors, correct? Will the panels be a continuous curve or have a flat in the center like Guy's? If they're continuous, the only tricky thing is machining the dado in the rails for the panel. When I've done it, I made the curved panels longer than necessary and used the cutoff as an auxiliary router table fence for the curve of the door to bear against. It's not an exact radius match, but by flexing and tacking it against a panel that clamps to the table and matches the inside radius of the door, like this, but with the bit vertical rather than the slot cutter. I couldn't find any photos of my setup with a vertical cutter. If it's any help, here's a link to that curved door build. I would also recommend using bending ply for the door core, regardless of the curvature. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 Leather dye (like Kiwi shoe dye) makes the deepest, flattest black I have seen on wood. India ink is a huge mess and leaves an oil-film rainbow effect. I haven't used trans-tint, but all the non-black stuff I've seen leaves the wood showing through. Leather dye penetrates pretty well, you can get away with some sanding after application. And since it is (red?) oak, go crazy and do a contrasting pore fill on top of the black. Maybe white, for anti-zebrawood! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 I would highly recommend testing multiple methods (including topcoat) - the one in the current FW works well on oak because of the high tannin content. I would test aniline dyes also. If you're planning to topcoat with an oil based finish, use water based dye. If you plan to use water based topcoat, use oil based. That way you don't have to worry about bleeding or smearing due to solvents. Shoe polish works really well but the wax makes any topcoat almost impossible, other than wax. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mick S Posted April 2, 2019 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, wtnhighlander said: And since it is (red?) oak, go crazy and do a contrasting pore fill on top of the black. Maybe white, for anti-zebrawood! It's really a cool effect. This is shou sugi ban (burning) on oak and ash with white Liberon wax applied and buffed off. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 Very exotic, @Mick S! Who says red oak can't be cool? What tool did you use to burn it? My attempts with a hand-held torch have very uneven results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 Damned if I can keep a board straight, much less bend the way I want it. Good luck bud and watching with anticipation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted April 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 Wow thanks for all the great info folks!! I have some research and tests to do which is great becuase it means I'll be in the shop again I do have a QualityVAK vacuum press set up so I'm good there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Mick S said: would also recommend using bending ply for the door core, regardless of the curvature. I am not familiar with bending plywood. What is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Ronn W said: I am not familiar with bending plywood. What is it? It's just what it sounds like - plywood that bends to a form. It comes in various thicknesses and you can get it with the bend direction running the 8' length or across the width. It speeds up the build time considerably. In Garrett Hack's FW curved door article he uses stave construction to build up the core. With bending ply, that whole series of steps is eliminated. In the build I linked to above , I needed the doors to be 1/2" overall thickness and in order to do so I had to thickness sand the bending ply down to the final thickness minus the thickness of the 4 veneer layers. Worked like a charm. There are several manufacturers, but here's what I used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick S Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 7 hours ago, wtnhighlander said: Very exotic, @Mick S! Who says red oak can't be cool? What tool did you use to burn it? My attempts with a hand-held torch have very uneven results. These samples were done by our dept head, Doug Jones. He has the technique down to an art. He uses a propane torch with MAPP gas. It takes practice. He goes over it with liming wax then hits that with several very light coats of either Deft or Danish oil. Not sure if this will post correctly but I'll try - 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 I'm sure it's safe but isn't that a dust collector in the background? Full of very fine flammable material? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted April 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 9 hours ago, Ronn W said: I am not familiar with bending plywood. What is it? I used it on the Jewelry box doors last fall, for the core under my shop made veneer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdie Posted April 2, 2019 Report Share Posted April 2, 2019 I almost forgot - I have a red oak box I built that I finished with shellac. The shellac got contaminated with something, I think steel wool, and it added a definite black hue to the finish compared to a similar box I had finished just days previous. I don't have the box that came out the correct color but kept the "blacker" one. I'll have to take a pic when I get home to show. Probably not the color you're looking for but first time something like that had happened to me and an unexpected outcome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 The drawback to chemical coloration, such as @Byrdie mentioned, is depenance on reactivity with tannins is the wood, which are highly variable from stick to stick. A certain solution of iron acetate may turn one piece of oak jet black, while the next board just goes dingy gray. In my limited experience, this method does penetrate deeper than most dyes or stains, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 I'm not sure which is more impressive- your work, or your ambition. I admit to liking curves too though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted April 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, Tom King said: I'm not sure which is more impressive- your work, or your ambition. I admit to liking curves too though. Thanks Tom! I admire the quality of your work but pretty sure I will never do enough of it to get anywhere near your skill level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted April 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 Mick mentioned there was an article in this months FWW talking about ebonizing oak I read through it and think I will give it a try as well. In the article he uses white vinegar and steel wool to produce the solution, my question is will the solution once made have a shelf life or would you need to use it right away? I don't want to make a whole quart of the stuff if it has no shelf life becuase it may be a month or two before I get to the actual piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted April 8, 2019 Report Share Posted April 8, 2019 I have tried the vinegar and steel wood. Not easy to get the right solution and almost impossible to reproduce. At least for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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