Locking French cleat

[treesner]

Hey guys I’ve got a smaller French cleat for a floating shelf that if If I put weight on one side or the other it will rock up and makes it seem not sturdy. 

This is a prototype that I did where you slide down on the screw then push it over. It fixed a lot of the rock but still a little bit. Any other ideas or how to improve? 

Ive seen floating shelves where they have a set screw in from the bottom to hold it but because of the design of the shelf I can’t really do that and I’d rather not have any holes 

 

[wtnhighlander]

Check the wall for flatness. Shim the wall half of the cleat ss needed to make it flat..Any distortion from tightening the screws against a non-flat wall will make the mating bevels rock.

[Byrdie]

First visual impression is that the locking slots are not equidistant from the edge of the piece they are cut into.  The one that leaves a gap  (on the right in the image) appears closer to the edge.

[Ronn W]

On 4/7/2019 at 12:29 AM, wtnhighlander said:

Check the wall for flatness. Shim the wall half of the cleat ss needed to make it flat..Any distortion from tightening the screws against a non-flat wall will make the mating bevels rock.

+1

[treesner]

On 4/6/2019 at 10:29 PM, wtnhighlander said:

Check the wall for flatness. Shim the wall half of the cleat ss needed to make it flat..Any distortion from tightening the screws against a non-flat wall will make the mating bevels rock.

 

hmm I guess I'm trying to figure out a mounting solution that's easy for customers I ship to, not sure I would want to ship with a bunch of shims. 

would I need to make a French cleat of aluminum angler iron  to stop it from flexing with the non perfect walls? 

[treesner]

4 hours ago, Byrdie said:

First visual impression is that the locking slots are not equidistant from the edge of the piece they are cut into.  The one that leaves a gap  (on the right in the image) appears closer to the edge.

good observation, kind of just threw this together.

however how I did it is that I screwed the two screws in where I wanted them to be final then I just cut the horizontal slots as a way to move it in from. shouldn't the distance not actually matter, just a matter of clearing out enough material so that theres enough room for it to slide on? 

I was thinking that maybe the wood flexes a little to much like I would need a metal slot / stop?

 

wonder if I could use those key hole + screw hangers they make except like turn them sideways? 

https://www.google.com/search?q=keyhole+slide+hanger&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-8ZiooMHhAhW5FTQIHUBUBN0Q_AUIDygC&biw=1572&bih=886#imgrc=vk_ADM0p6ylZQM:

plus these have these special screws where its round not threaded on the end that touches the key hole

[treesner]

I wonder how sturdy this would be. the downside is that I really liked having the French cleat style where customer could screw in wherever the studs were and not have to worry about aligning exactly to studs like this method of two screws + keyhole would be

 

I wonder if I could mount those key holes onto a long piece of plywood, screw the plywood to the wall. then the shelf would have two screws in it

[Byrdie]

1 hour ago, treesner said:

good observation, kind of just threw this together.

however how I did it is that I screwed the two screws in where I wanted them to be final then I just cut the horizontal slots as a way to move it in from. shouldn't the distance not actually matter, just a matter of clearing out enough material so that theres enough room for it to slide on? 

I was thinking that maybe the wood flexes a little to much like I would need a metal slot / stop?

 

wonder if I could use those key hole + screw hangers they make except like turn them sideways? 

https://www.google.com/search?q=keyhole+slide+hanger&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-8ZiooMHhAhW5FTQIHUBUBN0Q_AUIDygC&biw=1572&bih=886#imgrc=vk_ADM0p6ylZQM:

plus these have these special screws where its round not threaded on the end that touches the key hole

First, wood doesn't flex, it wears, so to get the fit you're talking about would take repeated use until the offending wood was worn away.

  Second, the difference in the distance from the gap to the edge would cause the cleat to fit differently.  You can see that in the difference in the two images.  Where the screw is in the larger slot there is nothing controlling the relationship laterally between the two pieces and no gap.  As soon as it's moved sideways where the relative distance between the screw and the cleat is determined by the width of the wood you have a gap.

Finally, I'm not sure why you're reinventing the wheel (or the French cleat) here - why you think you need a locking system.  The cool thing about the design of the French cleat system is that the two mating surfaces fit together in such a way that it's the weight of hanging piece that keeps it secure.  No need for a locking system.  If, however, what you're trying to do is come up with a way to mount the cleat to the piece that's hanging on it, nothing short of correct, square installation is going to make it hang correctly.  Likewise, the wall mount cleat needs to be correctly installed as level.

The other system you're looking at isn't going to improve the situation any if it isn't installed correctly.  The mounting hardware needs to be mounted parallel and the same distance from the top edge for the shelf to be level and straight.  Accuracy is the key to either system.

[treesner]

8 hours ago, Byrdie said:

First, wood doesn't flex, it wears, so to get the fit you're talking about would take repeated use until the offending wood was worn away.

  Second, the difference in the distance from the gap to the edge would cause the cleat to fit differently.  You can see that in the difference in the two images.  Where the screw is in the larger slot there is nothing controlling the relationship laterally between the two pieces and no gap.  As soon as it's moved sideways where the relative distance between the screw and the cleat is determined by the width of the wood you have a gap.

Finally, I'm not sure why you're reinventing the wheel (or the French cleat) here - why you think you need a locking system.  The cool thing about the design of the French cleat system is that the two mating surfaces fit together in such a way that it's the weight of hanging piece that keeps it secure.  No need for a locking system.  If, however, what you're trying to do is come up with a way to mount the cleat to the piece that's hanging on it, nothing short of correct, square installation is going to make it hang correctly.  Likewise, the wall mount cleat needs to be correctly installed as level.

The other system you're looking at isn't going to improve the situation any if it isn't installed correctly.  The mounting hardware needs to be mounted parallel and the same distance from the top edge for the shelf to be level and straight.  Accuracy is the key to either system.

If you have a shelf mounted on a French cleat you can take one end and lift it up horizontally. this is what's happening when I put weight on the edge of the shelf, it's lifting up the other side. I'm basically trying to lock it so that it can not lift up. perhaps if the shelf was super heavy that would fix it but I don't want to add weight for weights sake especially if I'm shipping. 

 

Edit: thinking about it more, the cleat is hidden inside the shelf so its flush and you can't see the cleat on the sides. I make the wall mounting cleat shorter than the shelf mounted cleat so that there is some play moving it side to side if you want to visually adjust the position a little bit. however if I just made the cleat cleats the same exact size so that when you fit it on there was no side to side play I would no longer have the lifting because the edge of the cleat would hit the inside edge of the shelves cleat, acting as a stop. No longer have that left/right adjustment for shelf positioning but that's a fair trade off. 

 

 

[Tpt life]

9 hours ago, treesner said:

If you have a shelf mounted on a French cleat you can take one end and lift it up horizontally. this is what's happening when I put weight on the edge of the shelf, it's lifting up the other side. I'm basically trying to lock it so that it can not lift up. perhaps if the shelf was super heavy that would fix it but I don't want to add weight for weights sake especially if I'm shipping. 

Your cleats are too far from the ends if it will tip. You are looking for designs because you are locating mounting at those corbels. Key slots as posted are a good option.