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Hammer5573

Gorilla Glue

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I’ve been experimenting with using more Gorilla glue on some of my projects because it’s bonds so much stronger than yellow glue. I’ve heard all of the complaints about it ( foaming, messy, impossible to remove if I gets on wood surface etc); however, now that realize that these can happen I prepare ahead for them. I use newspaper to cover all the work surface, I selectively wet the areas that I want to glue ( water activates the glue), I apply the glue SPARINGLY, and I apply blue masking tape all around the joint. I’ve done some pretty radical bent laminations recently using this glue and haven’t noticed any creep afterwards. I’ve even used it on a long legged mortise and tenon federal table that I completed without any problems.

I still mostly use yellow glue but I do think that there is a place in woodworking for Gorilla glue

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I may be wrong but I think Gorilla glue is basically spray foam insulation in a bottle. I've tried it on various projects, but I have no real need for it. The biggest drawback is it's a mess to clean off your hands and other places. I just can't see what major advantage it has over other woodworking glues. It does hold well.

For lamination's, I still like resorcinol glue like Weldwood. For typical joints like mortise and tenon I still like yellow glue and for gap filling I use epoxy resin.

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Fine Woodworking did a glue test and believe it or not, the polyurethane glues did not beat the PVA based glues. And all of that foam has zero strength. Poly glue requires a properly fitted joint to reach full strength. It is not a gap filling glue. And I definitely agree with you about the mess. Took me a week to pick it off my hands.

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As Norm once said "it'll be with you for a week"  :(

But I have read a couple of tests, including the FWW on mentioned above, that the PU glue isn't as strong as good old PVA. And if I'm gonna use something messy, I'll use epoxy. But we all have our preferences & there's lots of guys that like PU.

 

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Who am I to question FWW but I’ll bet they didn’t compare PU with PVA on a bent lamination; no contest 

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Every glue has its strengths. For wood to wood joints, I'll choose PVA, unless the project is for outdoor use. PU is great for outdoors. PU is better than PVA for gluing non-wood to wood. And PU allows interesting options for bent laminations, as the lay-up can be stretch-wrapped or taped together, since PU needs no air to cure.

For normal wood joints, I stick with PVA, although I want to try hide glue at some point.

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1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said:

I want to try hide glue at some point.

This is on my to do list.  I have a project coming up that I am going to build a prototype to test some ideas and was thinking of using Old Brown glue to try the hide glue thing.

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The most important fact is the wood breaks before the joint does then the glue is strong enough. I have been using tite bond since there was tite bond. II and currently III. On occasion I use epoxy.TB III has meaningful elasticity. It lets the wood move to a point. It would be hard to improveTB III.

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8 hours ago, Hammer5573 said:

Who am I to question FWW but I’ll bet they didn’t compare PU with PVA on a bent lamination; no contest 

You can't go wrong using the PU glue for bent laminations, esp on the more radical bends. I'm not sure I could deal with the mess, but it seems like you have it figured out. Another great glue to consider on bent lams is Unibond 800, it's got a long open time, gives you a rigid glue line, and has some gap filling properties. I've never tried this, but I may in the future.

I've not done many radical bends in woodworking history, but the less extreme bends I've done have been with PVA. But in the back of my mind I was always worried about cold creep. In the end I felt that since the bends were not too extreme and I make my laminations thin, than PVA was fine. 

 

5 hours ago, Chet said:

This is on my to do list.  I have a project coming up that I am going to build a prototype to test some ideas and was thinking of using Old Brown glue to try the hide glue thing.

 

7 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

Every glue has its strengths. For wood to wood joints, I'll choose PVA, unless the project is for outdoor use. PU is great for outdoors. PU is better than PVA for gluing non-wood to wood. And PU allows interesting options for bent laminations, as the lay-up can be stretch-wrapped or taped together, since PU needs no air to cure.

For normal wood joints, I stick with PVA, although I want to try hide glue at some point.

I'm going to be using hide glue more after using it in my last project. As much as I love PVA, it will swell the wood slightly and complex joints can be a struggle with PVA. Another nice thing about hide glues is a longer set time and they don't "soak" into the wood like PVA and missed spots from cleanup don't show up after finishing. Using this glue in chairs is really the ideal place for it, and you can't argue about it's track record. Finally, what other glue can you unglue? 

 

When I think of glues, the one I'm not totally in love with is epoxy. The longer set time is nice, especially with complex glue ups, but the cure time is long. To me this glue shines for it's gap filling ability, and is great for filling in knots, voids and etc in you stock. But I'm always worried about starving the joint with this glue. I've gone through a period of using this and it's the only glue I've experienced a joint failure with. I had a joint come loose in one of my chairs. I'm thinking I starved the joint with too much clamping pressure.

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I've used the PU glue on mostly exterior projects. It does make a mess, but it is one of the free glues that I would trust with a bent lamination outdoors. I used it to make the bent beams for a small foot bridge and it has zero issues a couple of years later. It is nice in that it's slippery when first assembled, like hide glue, so it can make the joint easier to assemble.

I've actually been using hide glue quite a bit. I used the old Brown glue on assembling my tool cabinet, and a couple of other glue ups. The biggest issue I find you need to watch for is making sure the glue doesn't cool down too much before the joints are together. That glue is Jello consistency at a cool room temperature, and only flows well when you keep the bottle in a warm water bath. I put some into one of the really small Glu bot bottles to make this easier.

I did discover that you can heat the joint up within an hour or two and still be able to clamp it tighter. While it doesn't swell the joint as much as PVA, there's still a little bit of that, but it also lubricates the joint when it first goes on. Overall it's been good, but I may try the titebond version next time, as it seems to flow better at room temperature.

It is much easier for squeeze out clean up. You can get it all with a damp tag pretty easily, even if you do it later. It also doesn't show under the finish, unless there's a huge amount of it.

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Traditional, as in heat it in a glue pot, hide glue is reversible by heating up the joint, and maybe judicious use of water.  But with Old Brown Glue and the Titebond product which are liquid at room temp (and cure at room temp)  how do you reverse the glue?

It would be nice to be able to use a reversible glue for sacrificial blocks and other temporary fixings.

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1 hour ago, Mark J said:

Traditional, as in heat it in a glue pot, hide glue is reversible by heating up the joint, and maybe judicious use of water.  But with Old Brown Glue and the Titebond product which are liquid at room temp (and cure at room temp)  how do you reverse the glue?

It would be nice to be able to use a reversible glue for sacrificial blocks and other temporary fixings.

Old Brown Glue is reversible just like traditional hide glues. From their website;

***

Reversabillity

Advantages and techniques

How do you reverse Old Brown Glue?

Old Brown Glue is reversible as is Hot Hide Glue.

You can reverse protein glues by adding moisture and heat to the elements, this will bring back the protein to a liquid state.

You can also use steam.

If the glueing is recent and the glue has not fully cured OBG can be reversed with only heat. If it had time to cure, heat and moisture are needed.

***

Also this link from their website, interesting and I'm not sure if this is the FWW article referred to earlier in this thread;

http://oldbrownglue.com/images/articles/HowStrongisYourGlue_FWW.pdf

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Gorilla glue is good for outdoors, it’s very heat resistant so I’ve used it for storage boxes in the back of an SUV where heat can be extreme. You can cut down on the mess by using less-less glue and less water. I know some marquetry experts like to use it as well. It can be used as a finish as well.  

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FWIW, custom fishing rod builders tried Gorilla glue on cork rings for grips. The expansion trait made 99% of them to go back to something else as the cleaning of the GG was a real pain. For me TBIII turned clean on the lathe. I have used TBIII for a lot of projects and find it to be good, inside or outside.

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Does anyone have any experience with Titebond Quick and Thick?  I am thinking about using it on an upcoming project.  I'm wodering about how well it performs and is it clear when cured?

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Mark, never heard of it or seen it in any store. A search on the TB website might give you some needed info.

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Some people go ape over GG! Wife said a school custodian used GG tape on a couple of temporary repair projects. She said once it sticks, it is stuck!

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2 hours ago, Bankstick said:

Some people go ape over GG! Wife said a school custodian used GG tape on a couple of temporary repair projects. She said once it sticks, it is stuck!

GG tape is very good stuff. It's everything that duct tape should be but isn't.

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On 5/1/2019 at 8:17 PM, drzaius said:

GG tape is very good stuff. It's everything that duct tape should be but isn't.

Does it tear clean? That's always my #1 gripe with duct tape

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I haven't used it for a few months, but as I recall, it does. The substrate does seem quite a bit stronger, the adhesive is much stickier & it doesn't dry out nearly as fast. I used some on the belly pan of my 5th wheel several years ago & it is still stuck securely with no peeling or cracking.

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On 5/3/2019 at 1:31 PM, Brendon_t said:

Does it tear clean? That's always my #1 gripe with duct tape

Never had a problem with tearing straight. Aren't there a couple of brands of duct/duck tape? My last roll was from $ General. So far, so good.

My brother-in-law had a shirt- I can fix anything! Where's the duct tape?

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