Board on board fence pickets, where to attach 1st pickets?

[L2090301]

Hello all, 

Preparing to attach 5-1/2” W pickets for a board on board fence. Planning to using 3-1/2” W spacer (basically a 2x4) with 1” overlap on each side. 

First run is 224-3/4”...
-House to cover gate latch post 44-1/4” 
-Gate 46”
-Covered gate hinge post to cover 1st corner 134-1/4”

FWIW: Doing the math, if I divide 224-3/4” (first run) by 3-1/2” (board width minus overlap) it gives me 64.21 as rough number of boards.

That said, I’ve seen some videos recommending to attach 1st pickets to cover corner posts and gate posts, so they have full pickets; working from gate posts towards 1st corner on one side and house on other side, ripping last picket, at house and corners, if too big.  Then continuing from 1st corner along remaining run, again ripping last picket, at remaining corners and end of fence, if too big.

How does that sound...Make sense?

I appreciate your feedback!

[Tom King]

I'd tighten them up a hair, and add one more board to  get them to work out evenly.  I used board on board siding a lot in the '70's, and '80's, including on our own house, and barn, out of White Oak.  I went with more overlap than an inch on the edges.   I think starting, and finishing with whole boards will look best too.  One gets ripped down, so a corner shows the same amount on both sides.

It's the same with ballustrades.  They never work out exactly evenly to some measurement, so I step them off with dividers until everything works out exactly, evenly spaced.  A measurement is fine with siding, or a fence though.  Just check several times along the way to make sure you're running on target, and cheat a little to catch back up.  I usually mark every location to start with, rather than always playing off the last one, since that will accumulate an error.

[Tom King]

Here's the original White Oak siding on our house.  I've never put any type of finish on it.   This is 40 years old, and I just pressure washed it this week.  In 1980, there were no stainless steel nailgun nails, so these were galvanized.  The first time I ever pressure washed the house, I used bleach first.  The bleach corroded the nails. 

As we make additions to the house, I've been pulling off the outer layer, and using the nail stained pieces as the first layer, nailing on the new top layer with stainless nails.  The ones on the picture was pressure washed a couple of days ago, with water only.

The first few spec houses I built here, I used Cedar siding.  Every one of those houses ended up with woodpecker holes, or flying squirrels in the attics.  No such problems with White Oak.  When I built our house, and barn, rough cut White Oak 1x6'S cost $100 a thousand (10 cents a board foot).  On most of the lake spec houses I built, I paid a little extra to get dressed lumber.  All of those houses are still in perfectly fine condition, but most of the second owners have stained the siding.  Most have changed hands several times, and sold for many times what I sold them for 40 years ago.

 

[L2090301]

1 hour ago, Tom King said:

I'd tighten them up a hair, and add one more board to  get them to work out evenly.  I used board on board siding a lot in the '70's, and '80's, including on our own house, and barn, out of White Oak.  I went with more overlap than an inch on the edges.   I think starting, and finishing with whole boards will look best too.  One gets ripped down, so a corner shows the same amount on both sides.

It's the same with ballustrades.  They never work out exactly evenly to some measurement, so I step them off with dividers until everything works out exactly, evenly spaced.  A measurement is fine with siding, or a fence though.  Just check several times along the way to make sure you're running on target, and cheat a little to catch back up.  I usually mark every location to start with, rather than always playing off the last one, since that will accumulate an error.

Thanks!

When you say ”Tighten them up a hair, and add one more board...”, do you mean going with a little more of overlap like you did, so I can fit 65 boards?  

 

 

 

[Tom King]

Yes.   There won't be much of a difference in spacing with only adding one board.   I didn't do any figuring on your measurements, but since you ended up with a small fraction of another board, I'd add another one in, so it works out with whole boards.

[L2090301]

On 4/27/2019 at 1:15 PM, Tom King said:

Yes.   There won't be much of a difference in spacing with only adding one board.   I didn't do any figuring on your measurements, but since you ended up with a small fraction of another board, I'd add another one in, so it works out with whole boards.

Thanks!

Not much of a difference, indeed, if I’m doing this correctly.  I divided 224.75” (length of run) by 65 (one more whole board), which gives me 3.45” as new spacer width, instead of 3.5”. 

When I convert 3.45 to a fraction, I get 3-9/20, but how do I translate that to my measuring tape, which is broken down by 1/16’s?

[wtnhighlander]

If I did the mat properly, 9/20 should be 7.2/16.  Carpenters would call that 7/16 strong. Within the margin of pencil line error.

[L2090301]

2 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

If I did the mat properly, 9/20 should be 7.2/16.  Carpenters would call that 7/16 strong. Within the margin of pencil line error.

Thanks!

What is the proper way to do the math?

[wtnhighlander]

16 and 20 will both divide evenly into 80. 16 goes 5 times, 20 goes 4 times. So, 9/20 makes 4×9/80 or 36/80.

Now divide numerator AND denominator by 5, the number of times 16 goes into 80.

The result is 7.2/16.

 

[L2090301]

On 4/28/2019 at 7:34 PM, wtnhighlander said:

16 and 20 will both divide evenly into 80. 16 goes 5 times, 20 goes 4 times. So, 9/20 makes 4×9/80 or 36/80.

Now divide numerator AND denominator by 5, the number of times 16 goes into 80.

The result is 7.2/16.

 

Thanks, that’s very helpful!

[L2090301]

Well, not sure this is working they way I had hoped.  Forgot to mention I’m on a bit of a slope.  I started at the corner and worked my way towards gate hinge post, which is where I stopped.

I’m hesitant to begin adding the 2nd row of boards to fill in the gaps until I got some feedback.  That said, here’s how far last board, so far, is from covering gate hinge post...

1-10/16” at top 

2-14/16” at bottom

I’d appreciate your guidance!

 

[Tom King]

Which is out of plumb?  If the board is plumb, I'd keep going.  If it's that much out of plumb, hopefully they're put up with screws, which are easy to change, but even if nailed, enough will need to come back off, until you get back where it's close.  Use a level to check for plumb every so often.  Just measuring each one will always accumulate some error.

If the posts are out of plumb, there's probably not a lot you can do about that at this point.

[L2090301]

2 hours ago, Tom King said:

Which is out of plumb?  If the board is plumb, I'd keep going.  If it's that much out of plumb, hopefully they're put up with screws, which are easy to change, but even if nailed, enough will need to come back off, until you get back where it's close.  Use a level to check for plumb every so often.  Just measuring each one will always accumulate some error.

If the posts are out of plumb, there's probably not a lot you can do about that at this point.

Thanks!

The gate hinge post is out of plumb.  SOB twisted on me because I took too long to put rails up to help hold it in place.  I guess the good news is it’s leaning the opposite of what it would be for a sagging gate.

The boards are plumb, but with where that last board is in relation to the out of plumb hinge gate post, what would you do there?

[Tom King]

I can't say without looking at it.  The hinge pins need to be plumb in two planes, or the gate will want to swing one way.  If a 4x, or even 2x is going to twist, nailing something to it beforehand won't do much in the long run.

[L2090301]

54 minutes ago, Tom King said:

I can't say without looking at it.  The hinge pins need to be plumb in two planes, or the gate will want to swing one way.  If a 4x, or even 2x is going to twist, nailing something to it beforehand won't do much in the long run.

Thanks!

I hear ya’.  I may have enough surface area on the post to make the hinge pins plumb in 2 planes, if I follow the plumb line of last board...We shall see.  That said, it doesn’t look like I need another board there.

FWIW, here are clearer pics...

[Tom King]

I don't know exactly what I'm looking at.  Those horizonatal 2x4's are going to be cut for the gate opening?  If so, use the top layer board to form one side of a corner, and another one that intersects with it to form a plumb corner.   There will need to be some spacer blocks cut to give good support to the (now) door (gate) jamb board, and especially under the hinges.  In other words, wrap the post so that what you end up with is a plumb jamb for the gate.

[L2090301]

6 hours ago, Tom King said:

I don't know exactly what I'm looking at.  Those horizonatal 2x4's are going to be cut for the gate opening?  If so, use the top layer board to form one side of a corner, and another one that intersects with it to form a plumb corner.   There will need to be some spacer blocks cut to give good support to the (now) door (gate) jamb board, and especially under the hinges.  In other words, wrap the post so that what you end up with is a plumb jamb for the gate.

Thanks!

Yes, those horizonatal 2x4's are going to be cut for the gate opening.  I can’t really picture what you mean by using the top layer board to form one side of a corner, and another one that intersects with it to form a plumb corner.  But, I get what you’re saying about spacer blocks cut to give good support under the hinges. 

[Tom King]

Box in the post with the fencing boards.  Use spacer blocks to support it to plumb, all the way around.  Every spacer block will be different, and maybe even tapered.   Make sure there are large spacer blocks under the boxing to give full support where the hinges are.

[L2090301]

On 5/12/2019 at 7:43 AM, Tom King said:

Box in the post with the fencing boards.  Use spacer blocks to support it to plumb, all the way around.  Every spacer block will be different, and maybe even tapered.   Make sure there are large spacer blocks under the boxing to give full support where the hinges are.

Thanks!

I appreciate you taking the time to explain in more detail...I think I understand. 

As for boxing in the post, I have some 1x4s...How about using those Instead of fencing boards?

By different size spacer blocks, I take it you mean different thicknesses depending on what it takes to get to plumb...That said, how large would you make them?

[Tom King]

Any size board would be fine, as long as they are wide enough.

  Yes, thickness, and taper to get finish boards back to plumb.    If they are tapered, you can slide one up, or down the post until it hits just right on a straight edge.    I'd make the spacers under the hinges maybe 10 inches long.   For the others 4" would be plenty.  Just long enough so any fasteners won't split them.

[L2090301]

19 hours ago, Tom King said:

Any size board would be fine, as long as they are wide enough.

  Yes, thickness, and taper to get finish boards back to plumb.    If they are tapered, you can slide one up, or down the post until it hits just right on a straight edge.    I'd make the spacers under the hinges maybe 10 inches long.   For the others 4" would be plenty.  Just long enough so any fasteners won't split them.

Thanks, that’s very helpful!  

Yeah, now that I think about it, the 1x4s may not be wide enough, as I box in the post.

How would you go about tapering the 4” spacer blocks?

[Tom King]

Bandsaw probably, or handsaw depending on where I was when I needed them, and if I had planned that far ahead.  Either way, the wedges would be cut off of a larger piece, and the wedge would be the part that falls away, or is the small part left when you pull the large piece back, and then have to cut the wedge off.

It could also be set like a door jamb, with opposing wedges from each side, but I would still want full support under the hinges.

[L2090301]

On 5/14/2019 at 8:12 PM, Tom King said:

Bandsaw probably, or handsaw depending on where I was when I needed them, and if I had planned that far ahead.  Either way, the wedges would be cut off of a larger piece, and the wedge would be the part that falls away, or is the small part left when you pull the large piece back, and then have to cut the wedge off.

It could also be set like a door jamb, with opposing wedges from each side, but I would still want full support under the hinges.

Thanks!

No bandsaw, but I do have handsaw, circular saw and chopsaw.  

I actually have several wedges like you speak of that have fallen off larger pieces, which I use as door jambs.