Veritas honing jig curiosity


Ron Swanson Jr.

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So here's something that I can't figure out. I use the veritas mk ii honing jig on my plane irons, and time after time, blade after blade, I don't get an even, consistent contact with the stone. 

I just brought this to Lee Valley and they're looking into it. 

Here are some pictures. In this case, I had just re-established the primary bevel on an iron using a 250 grit stone.

I moved up to a 1200 grit to illustrate this issue - see in the first picture how the left side isn't making even purchase?

Now, I've put some thought into troubleshooting this.

Here's a list of things I've ruled out:

1. It's not this iron being out of whack. This happens consistently on all my plane irons.

2. Not the stone. This happens on both water and diamond stones.

3. Not me seating the blade in the jig incorrectly. I use the fence on the registration jig to ensure the iron is perpendicular to the head. I am careful to tighten it consistently and evenly. 

4. I am even and deliberate with my finger pressure while sharpening.

5. It has nothing to do with the micro bevel control on this jig.

There's nothing physical that I can see in the jig that causes this and to tell the truth, it's an annoyance but I still get great results from this jig. 

So this post is more to satisfy my curiosity than to solve the issue. But I wouldn't mind solving it.

Thanks all. I know if there's anyone who can figure this out it's the people in this forum. I greatly appreciate the advice and guidance in here.

 

The second pic is the bevel before I started on the next stone. It's even and consistent and the third pic shows the bevel is an even 25°

IMG_20190621_184021480.jpg

IMG_20190621_182121318.jpg

IMG_20190621_182109271.jpg

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I consistently have a similar problem with plane blades on the MK II jig.  The bevel forms more (deeper? sooner?) On one side than the other, despite careful attention to alignment, clamp pressure and grinding pressure.  I just thought it was me.

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2 hours ago, Barron said:

Is it sharp?  If it is, then it’s just cosmetic and not worth worrying about. 

Yes. It is. That's why I tried to make clear that this was just a curiosity and not a huge problem I was trying to solve. And then, oddly enough, after re-establishing the primary bevel on an iron, and having this issue clearly happen right before my eyes, I put the jig on the it's micro bevel setting and for the first time ever, this issue didn't happen. So IDK. Maybe I'm just nuts. But it drives me crazy, because I can't figure it out and it ends up taking a lot longer. But aside from that, your right, it's mostly cosmetic.

5 hours ago, Tom King said:

I've heard of this quite a number of times, over years.   I just keep the cambered roller on mine all the time.

I use the camber roller on some irons, but not all of them.

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5 hours ago, Tpt life said:

I am wondering if your rollers are not true?

that could be, but I've examined them pretty closely and I don't think that that's it. I'm beginning to wonder if it doesn't have something to do with me being right-handed? Mainly because I've ruled out just about every other conceivable cause. And I would expect the opposite to be true, that if one arm was stronger than the other, the opposite side would take longer to sharpen than what I'm seeing. So, I don't know.

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22 hours ago, Ronn W said:

I  am sure you thought of this but be sure that the jig is holding the blade evenly with equal pressure at both tightening knobs and amke sure the roller assembly is well seated in the proper colored slot.

Thanks @Ronn W. I've checked all these settings dozens of times. And I'm very careful and deliberate about seating the blade accurately, and squarely, and using consistent and even pressure when tightening the blade into The jig.

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When using most sharpening guides, check frequently and adjust your pressure accordingly. When using a sharpening guide, you can bias the pressure  to the middle or one side or the other, or on the corners. What most sharpening guides do, is they help you keep a consistent angle (which by the way, slowly changes slightly as you wear away the metal).

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2 hours ago, knockknock said:

When using most sharpening guides, check frequently and adjust your pressure accordingly. When using a sharpening guide, you can bias the pressure  to the middle or one side or the other, or on the corners. What most sharpening guides do, is they help you keep a consistent angle (which by the way, slowly changes slightly as you wear away the metal).

Thanks. I've been trying to figure this out for some time now so I'm pretty careful and intentional with finger placement and pressure on the blade.

And I do check progress constantly.

This might be a mystery that I never solve as I'm starting to venture into freehand sharpening without the jig.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

 

Take care

Doug

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have had issues with the roller jamming on my Mk2 guide. I use it for oddball blades, but prefer my L-N side clamping guide for normal sharpening. It is faster and I haven't had any issues with it. 

Like OakStBeachBum, i made a set of stops on my sharpening board to set the angle. Very fast and repeatable.

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On 7/17/2019 at 6:24 AM, drzaius said:

I've had no issues with my Mk. II guide. Maybe I'm using it wrong?

Pretty sure the issue is on my end. I wonder if I got some swarf in the roller bearings. Someday, I'll tear it apart cans see what caused it. The jam caused the micro bevel setting to spin and gave made a rounded edge. Weird....

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I run a little behind on reading Fine Wood Working, so I'm just getting to March now.  There's a review of honing guides in that issue.  Not surprisingly the reviewer liked the Lie-Nielsen and the Veritas mk II the best.  He did comment that the mk II is very sensitive to the pressure applied by the two clamping knobs, and that uneven pressure will skew the edge.

Thing is I know this and am careful, but still get a skewed edge.  So I don't know how many decimels of precission are expected from the operator.  

The review also gives the older Veritas Sharpening System (mk I ?) A very good rating.  This is a single screw top clamp device sold with a jig to determine angle.  Looking at it this might be a better compromise.  I have too much invested in the mk II, and don't spend that much time with planes and bench chisels (my woodworking has spun off in another direction), but if I were going back in time I'd look at the mk I more closely.

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I have both the mk i and mk ii. I haven’t used the mk i since I got the newer one. The angle finder it comes with doesn’t have a long enough reference surface to be quickly and easily repeatable, the homemade angle reference like @Tom King has would be far better than the one it comes with. 

It has nothing to keep the blade square to the jig, and I found it very fiddly to get the blade square, the screw tight, and keep the angle I want.

It works just as well once you have it all set but since sharpening already feels like an inconvenience, I’d rather use a jig that I can quickly and easily set. I don’t really care if I get a slightly skewed micro bevel. I haven’t noticed any difference between that and the chisels I have only the primary bevel on. 

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