applejackson

Veritas honing jig curiosity

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So here's something that I can't figure out. I use the veritas mk ii honing jig on my plane irons, and time after time, blade after blade, I don't get an even, consistent contact with the stone. 

I just brought this to Lee Valley and they're looking into it. 

Here are some pictures. In this case, I had just re-established the primary bevel on an iron using a 250 grit stone.

I moved up to a 1200 grit to illustrate this issue - see in the first picture how the left side isn't making even purchase?

Now, I've put some thought into troubleshooting this.

Here's a list of things I've ruled out:

1. It's not this iron being out of whack. This happens consistently on all my plane irons.

2. Not the stone. This happens on both water and diamond stones.

3. Not me seating the blade in the jig incorrectly. I use the fence on the registration jig to ensure the iron is perpendicular to the head. I am careful to tighten it consistently and evenly. 

4. I am even and deliberate with my finger pressure while sharpening.

5. It has nothing to do with the micro bevel control on this jig.

There's nothing physical that I can see in the jig that causes this and to tell the truth, it's an annoyance but I still get great results from this jig. 

So this post is more to satisfy my curiosity than to solve the issue. But I wouldn't mind solving it.

Thanks all. I know if there's anyone who can figure this out it's the people in this forum. I greatly appreciate the advice and guidance in here.

 

The second pic is the bevel before I started on the next stone. It's even and consistent and the third pic shows the bevel is an even 25°

IMG_20190621_184021480.jpg

IMG_20190621_182121318.jpg

IMG_20190621_182109271.jpg

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I  am sure you thought of this but be sure that the jig is holding the blade evenly with equal pressure at both tightening knobs and amke sure the roller assembly is well seated in the proper colored slot.

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1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said:

Looks a bit like the bed of the jig isn't perfectly flat.

That's worth a check. Thanks I'll check it out

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I consistently have a similar problem with plane blades on the MK II jig.  The bevel forms more (deeper? sooner?) On one side than the other, despite careful attention to alignment, clamp pressure and grinding pressure.  I just thought it was me.

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I've heard of this quite a number of times, over years.   I just keep the cambered roller on mine all the time.

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2 hours ago, Barron said:

Is it sharp?  If it is, then it’s just cosmetic and not worth worrying about. 

Yes. It is. That's why I tried to make clear that this was just a curiosity and not a huge problem I was trying to solve. And then, oddly enough, after re-establishing the primary bevel on an iron, and having this issue clearly happen right before my eyes, I put the jig on the it's micro bevel setting and for the first time ever, this issue didn't happen. So IDK. Maybe I'm just nuts. But it drives me crazy, because I can't figure it out and it ends up taking a lot longer. But aside from that, your right, it's mostly cosmetic.

5 hours ago, Tom King said:

I've heard of this quite a number of times, over years.   I just keep the cambered roller on mine all the time.

I use the camber roller on some irons, but not all of them.

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5 hours ago, Mark J said:

I consistently have a similar problem with plane blades on the MK II jig.  The bevel forms more (deeper? sooner?) On one side than the other. I just thought it was me.

Good to know I'm not the only one!

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5 hours ago, Tpt life said:

I am wondering if your rollers are not true?

that could be, but I've examined them pretty closely and I don't think that that's it. I'm beginning to wonder if it doesn't have something to do with me being right-handed? Mainly because I've ruled out just about every other conceivable cause. And I would expect the opposite to be true, that if one arm was stronger than the other, the opposite side would take longer to sharpen than what I'm seeing. So, I don't know.

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22 hours ago, Ronn W said:

I  am sure you thought of this but be sure that the jig is holding the blade evenly with equal pressure at both tightening knobs and amke sure the roller assembly is well seated in the proper colored slot.

Thanks @Ronn W. I've checked all these settings dozens of times. And I'm very careful and deliberate about seating the blade accurately, and squarely, and using consistent and even pressure when tightening the blade into The jig.

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When using most sharpening guides, check frequently and adjust your pressure accordingly. When using a sharpening guide, you can bias the pressure  to the middle or one side or the other, or on the corners. What most sharpening guides do, is they help you keep a consistent angle (which by the way, slowly changes slightly as you wear away the metal).

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2 hours ago, knockknock said:

When using most sharpening guides, check frequently and adjust your pressure accordingly. When using a sharpening guide, you can bias the pressure  to the middle or one side or the other, or on the corners. What most sharpening guides do, is they help you keep a consistent angle (which by the way, slowly changes slightly as you wear away the metal).

Thanks. I've been trying to figure this out for some time now so I'm pretty careful and intentional with finger placement and pressure on the blade.

And I do check progress constantly.

This might be a mystery that I never solve as I'm starting to venture into freehand sharpening without the jig.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

 

Take care

Doug

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I have had this same issue.

I ended up switching to a side clamping eclipse style guide and the problem went away.  I still use the MKII for odd sized blades but it is no longer the first thing I reach for.

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3 hours ago, OakStBeachBum said:

I have had this same issue.

I ended up switching to a side clamping eclipse style guide and the problem went away.  I still use the MKII for odd sized blades but it is no longer the first thing I reach for.

Eclipse.... Like this style?

thumbnail,w_500,h_500,m_a (1).jpg

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On 7/11/2019 at 7:11 PM, applejackson said:

Eclipse.... Like this style?

thumbnail,w_500,h_500,m_a (1).jpg

Yes exactly.  I store it in a box that also has a homemade angle stops.  Open the box, put the blade in the guide, size it to the correct angle based on the stops, and hone away.  Pretty fast and easy.

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On 7/11/2019 at 9:11 PM, applejackson said:

Eclipse.... Like this style?

thumbnail,w_500,h_500,m_a (1).jpg

That's the overpriced Lie Nielsen version. They offer interchangeable jaws for chisels, skewed blades, etc.

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11 minutes ago, Immortan D said:

That's the overpriced Lie Nielsen version. They offer interchangeable jaws for chisels, skewed blades, etc.

Yes I am aware of that  - I just didn't know what he meant by Eclipse - I hadn't heard that term before. Thanks for your reply. 

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I have had issues with the roller jamming on my Mk2 guide. I use it for oddball blades, but prefer my L-N side clamping guide for normal sharpening. It is faster and I haven't had any issues with it. 

Like OakStBeachBum, i made a set of stops on my sharpening board to set the angle. Very fast and repeatable.

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