Sign in to follow this  
Dble0

Starting up our first shop

Recommended Posts

I’ll try to keep the back story brief. Growing up we had one routine that stuck for around a decade. Sunday morning we got up, mom made a southern style breakfast and we sat down at the table and turned the tv on to this old house and the new yankee workshop for my dad. Dad always said he would have a wood shop one day. Unfortunately between military housing and life and general, he never got his shop. He is now 67 and it is beyond time for me to help him with this dream. My wife and I recently bought a house that luckily had a “shop”on site. It’s a clean slate. We have roughly a 14’x28’ space to work in. Our current tool list, from things he collected over the years, is as follows: an old 2 horse craftsman Tablesaw, a 6 1/8 inch craftsman professional series planar/jointer, just bought the dewalt Dw735x 13 inch planar, disc/belt sander combo, an old craftsman drill press, we are upgrading from a craftsman 12 inch compound miter saw to the Bosch axial glide(to save room), and various drills and other smaller tools. My hope is to help give him a shop we can both work in and possibly start a small furniture business.

I understand that the table saw is the heart of a shop, and I’m wondering if the craftsman will be enough. The fence sucks, like really sucks. We are torn between an upgraded saw that has a slightly better fence, or keeping the craftsman and adding a better fence. I have recently found a Powermatic 66 for sale for $550. Still waiting on more details from the guy. Am I correct in assuming this would be a good investment for us? What do I need to look for? Red flags as far as condition of the saw? Are there any other words of wisdom you guys have? What is the next step(s) you would take after the saw? 

We are just trying to figure out the best way to ease our way into this shop without breaking the bank. Thank you for your help  

00W0W_jFaEiyAfMf8_600x450.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Next step is to start making sawdust! (Assuming you both already know how to safely operate all of the tools- if not, start with that. Beware of YouTube videos, some show good safety practices and some show awful ones.)

What additional tools you need will depend on what you want to make and how you like to work. Start some projects and then you will find out what you actually need.

I’ll let others weigh in on the table saws. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can always upgrade your fence on your current table saw to save some money for the time being. I know the Vega fences fit older Craftsman saws but there are lots of other ones out there.

Seems like you're lacking a router/router table and dust collection. Outside of that, I'd get working and buy what you need when you come across it. He's waited this long to get a job, get him in it already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also look to upgrade the fence, there are fence systems out there you could use on your craftsman. A quick search gave me this link that might be helpful;

https://www.instructables.com/id/Retrofitting-A-Delta-T2-Fence-to-a-Craftsman-Table/

In my opinion a quality bandsaw is a must have.

I find the heart of my shop is the workbench. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the fence is only one part of the craftsman saw that disappoints you, I'd concentrate on replacing the saw. A decent fence might cost more than half the price of a pretty good used cabinet saw.  Before committing to a large expense, consider what sort of things you want to make. The size of the desired projects influences the size and choice of tools to use. For furniture, with the exception of some chair styles, you need flat, straight stock to begin with. A jointer and thickness planer become very important when you want to use hardwoods that are often available only in rough-cut form. Running rough, twisted, or bowed lumber across a table saw is an invitation for disaster.

After a few years of experience, my recommendation for a "hobby" workshop is to start with a sturdy workbench, including good work holding options, and a small collection of hand  tools. The first machine I would consider is a thickness planer, as large as you can afford. If possible, a dust collector to match it, or at least some means to divert the chips out of your work area. With the planer and a sled or some hand planes, you can make rough stock smooth and flat.

After that, I would debate over table saw vs. band saw. The table saw can perform quite a few machining operations that a band saw can not, but at the expense of safety. While these things CAN be safely accomplished, a thorough understanding of the machine is necessary to do so.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said:

The first machine I would consider is a thickness planer, as large as you can afford.

Ross, he mentioned he had the Dewalt 735.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@wtnhighlander makes a very good point about the fence. A good fence, and that's the only kind of fence you want, is expensive. It's better to have a good fence on a mediocre saw than the other way around.

Used is a great way to go, but make sure the saw has a riving knife & a good usable guard, one where they are easy & quick to install & remove. If they are not easy to use, they just won't get used as often as they should. My last saw had a horrible splitter and guard so they never got used. Ever. The saw I have now has a very good riving knife & guard that take just a few seconds to change out. They get used always.

I don't know about your dad, but I find that as I age, I have to pay extra attention to safety & like to take advantage of the safeties that are available.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good advice not to add a fence to the old craftsman. Did you buy the powermatic? They are great saws. The one in the picture looks like it may need some upgrading. The jointer is the mate to the table saw. Then you need a thickness planer. You have that. Those three would be what My first would be. Spend a little more than you can afford. You won't regret it. Good tools can last decades...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the advice to start building and figure out where your holes are is good advice. One person may rely heavily on a bad saw, while others will swear by a track with a multi function table. Some people rely heavily on miter saws. Project ideas and possibly some instruction/plans will help you on your way to figure out what to do next. Below are some of the things that I find is missing from your list.

Band saw , I operate very band saw heavy as it does all of my rip cuts, resawing, and curve cuts. My table saw isn't used nearly as much as other peoples.

A router table is also a good addition and has lots of utility. I personally use the Porter Cable 890 series (i bought 2 895PKs) and mounted a fixed base under a home made table. It works great and is very cheap compared to the super fancy tables out there. My fence is MDF.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would upgrade the table saw.  Spent a couple of evenings figuring out how you want to arrange the space in your shop and then start woodworking.   Any deficiencies in you tools or layout will become apparent as you work.  Those will guide the development of your shop to be what works for you.

A good shop bench is a joy.  After a short time you will know what features you wnat in your bench and can build it together.  My work bench build was, perhaps, my most satisfying project.

Putting together yout Dad's shop is a great journey, not an event.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/7/2019 at 11:19 AM, legenddc said:

You can always upgrade your fence on your current table saw to save some money for the time being. I know the Vega fences fit older Craftsman saws but there are lots of other ones out there.

Seems like you're lacking a router/router table and dust collection. Outside of that, I'd get working and buy what you need when you come across it. He's waited this long to get a job, get him in it already.

 

On 8/7/2019 at 11:49 AM, wtnhighlander said:

If the fence is only one part of the craftsman saw that disappoints you, I'd concentrate on replacing the saw. A decent fence might cost more than half the price of a pretty good used cabinet saw.  Before committing to a large expense, consider what sort of things you want to make. The size of the desired projects influences the size and choice of tools to use. For furniture, with the exception of some chair styles, you need flat, straight stock to begin with. A jointer and thickness planer become very important when you want to use hardwoods that are often available only in rough-cut form. Running rough, twisted, or bowed lumber across a table saw is an invitation for disaster.

After a few years of experience, my recommendation for a "hobby" workshop is to start with a sturdy workbench, including good work holding options, and a small collection of hand  tools. The first machine I would consider is a thickness planer, as large as you can afford. If possible, a dust collector to match it, or at least some means to divert the chips out of your work area. With the planer and a sled or some hand planes, you can make rough stock smooth and flat.

After that, I would debate over table saw vs. band saw. The table saw can perform quite a few machining operations that a band saw can not, but at the expense of safety. While these things CAN be safely accomplished, a thorough understanding of the machine is necessary to do so.

 

 

On 8/7/2019 at 1:06 PM, curlyoak said:

Good advice not to add a fence to the old craftsman. Did you buy the powermatic? They are great saws. The one in the picture looks like it may need some upgrading. The jointer is the mate to the table saw. Then you need a thickness planer. You have that. Those three would be what My first would be. Spend a little more than you can afford. You won't regret it. Good tools can last decades...

To add to the tool list from before...  We also have: biscuit jointer, detail biscuit jointer, a scroll saw, cordless circular saw, cordless jig saw, bench top grinder, a couple chisels, drills, router(want to add a compact router with a plunge base), cordless orbital sander.

Yes we do have a thickness planar, and a 6 inch planar joiner. Router table is definitely on our to do list. Hand tools I know we are lacking.  Recommendations on hand planes, chisel sets, and anything to get us started with the smaller stuff would be appreciated.  

I should also add that we do have experience with power tools.  Between the two of us we both have some contractor type work experience, and for as long as I can remember we have be chopping up reclaimed wood to make signs, small benches, and decor.  

We have not bought the powermatic yet.  I have talked to the guy some and I do know that it runs without issue and its a 220 3hp.  Im waiting for some more pictures from him.  I do know he has cut the rails for the fence down to fit his space.  I'm waiting for an answer back on just how short he cut them.  My question is, is the saw pictured above worth the $550 he is asking? Is there anything we need to look for to red flag the sale? He is 4 hours away and I just want to make sure we avoid wasting our time as much as possible.  

Thank you for your guy's help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The saw could be a saw with no motor. Possible rebuild. I'd assume no motor. I'd offer $150 plus another $150 if the motor works when you get home. Maybe less if you need new rails. Whatever they cost. IF it can be brought up to standard with a reliable motor, fence, and bed, I'd pay $1000 in top notch working order. Less whatever it would take to make it right. Find out the cost of a motor and rails. The fence appears good. Looks like a new switch...

That saw in good working order would need a better companion than the small 6". Wait if necessary but get a serious jointer. Consider an 8".  Good tools can last a lifetime. It is worth waiting and saving up then get one that is not reliable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get in your shop with your Dad asap. Record videos together even if its making small projects ( I wish my Dad would like woodworking as much as I do...). You both will notice the need for tools as you try to make stuff. If the budget is right, buy the best tool you can afford. I did lost of unnecessary purchases on tools trying to save some money. I ended up selling those very cheap and in some cases giving em away. Now I have very cool tools and I will continue to get more as I see the need. Other than that, PLEASE MAKE LOTS OF DUST (dust collection please) AND ENJOY THE RIDE. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this