weh729

Table top lumber & cupping

Recommended Posts

My daughter is getting married in a three months and she has asked me to make 24 farm tables for the reception.  I don't have much time so I have to make sure every thing I do counts and no mistakes.

The tops will be made out of #2 pine, from a real lumber yard not a box store so they are flat.  I am using 1x12 and ripping it down to 5" pieces to reduce cupping.  After the top boards are glues together I will be adding additional 1x to the edge to give the appearance of a 1 1/2" thick top, all matching the grain direction of the top.  I am not bread-boarding the top.

My question is, I am buying 56 - 1x12's this Saturday, to prevent cupping is it betting to rip these to 5" right away or leave at 12 until I'm ready to start on the next table?  My shop is only big enough to build 2-3 at a time. 

Along with this, can I completely assemble all 24 of the tables and then stain & poly them all at the same time?  This means some table may be unfinished for 1-2 months.  They will be stored indoors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, weh729 said:

he tops will be made out of #2 pine, from a real lumber yard not a box store so they are flat.

Hi welcome.

No, #2 pine is not flat. A few good boards are. 

3 minutes ago, weh729 said:

I am using 1x12 and ripping it down to 5" pieces to reduce cupping

That is a good idea. Usually waste the center of the board. If I am reading it right, don't edge the top with end grain pieces. Not a good idea from an engineering point of view.

 

6 minutes ago, weh729 said:

My question is, I am buying 56 - 1x12's this Saturday, to prevent cupping is it betting to rip these to 5" right away or leave at 12 until I'm ready to start on the next table?  My shop is only big enough to build 2-3 at a time. 

 

Rip all. After the rip the glue edge may distort. A jointer is ideal. However a hand plane can do the work but you don't have enough time for that. Perhaps rip them all. Check the edge for a glue joint. If you have a lot of pieces that need edge work, your only choice due to time is to get those pieces to a jointer.

After a table is built, if kept in  dry conditions and room temperature it should be fine if you built it right for a very long time. If it gets in contact with people or animals  it may need sanding.

If there is space, build them all at once. It is best to completely build all the tables first. Then finishing. That is if all the work is done in one place. Because you do not want to turn on any power tools and have airborne saw dust. It will find the finish. Other than managing dust you can choose any combinations of building but efficiency lies in doing it all at once. If space allows...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's going to take up a lot of room. You're going to have 3' of table tops stacked on top of each other, never mind all the legs. I hope you have a massive shop if you're going to finish them all at the same time inside. Best of luck!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Admitted "wedding cynic" here - nothing against people getting married (I've done it myself, with good results) - just some of the things they do to celebrate the event.

What's going to happen to these 24 tables after the wedding?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solid tables no gaps between boards?

I'd either do 2x12s or plywood. Plywood is tricky because I'm assuming you want like a ~28" wide table and that doesn't fit real well with 48" wide sheets. Beings that it's just a wedding you could probably get away with 24" plus edge banding though.

1x12s are goign to be too flimsy and likely to cup or distort. I've worked with them in the past and they never seemed to stay flat. I don't think it matters 1 lick where you get them pine isn't dried low enough to prevent movement after purchase.

Just my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I forgot to mention that I am also installing a 3 1/2" apron 4" from the edge and in the center.  The top will be held down with Rok table clips.

 

3 hours ago, curlyoak said:

Hi welcome.

No, #2 pine is not flat. A few good boards are. 

That is a good idea. Usually waste the center of the board. If I am reading it right, don't edge the top with end grain pieces. Not a good idea from an engineering point of view.

 

Rip all. After the rip the glue edge may distort. A jointer is ideal. However a hand plane can do the work but you don't have enough time for that. Perhaps rip them all. Check the edge for a glue joint. If you have a lot of pieces that need edge work, your only choice due to time is to get those pieces to a jointer.

After a table is built, if kept in  dry conditions and room temperature it should be fine if you built it right for a very long time. If it gets in contact with people or animals  it may need sanding.

If there is space, build them all at once. It is best to completely build all the tables first. Then finishing. That is if all the work is done in one place. Because you do not want to turn on any power tools and have airborne saw dust. It will find the finish. Other than managing dust you can choose any combinations of building but efficiency lies in doing it all at once. If space allows...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Solid tables no gaps between boards?

I'd either do 2x12s or plywood. Plywood is tricky because I'm assuming you want like a ~28" wide table and that doesn't fit real well with 48" wide sheets. Beings that it's just a wedding you could probably get away with 24" plus edge banding though.

1x12s are goign to be too flimsy and likely to cup or distort. I've worked with them in the past and they never seemed to stay flat. I don't think it matters 1 lick where you get them pine isn't dried low enough to prevent movement after purchase.

Just my opinion.

No gaps.

The problem with plywood is they don't look good as farm tables.  Also the tables will 36" wide.

I'm also installing 3 1/2" high aprons 4" in from the edges and bracing in the middle.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, G Ragatz said:

Admitted "wedding cynic" here - nothing against people getting married (I've done it myself, with good results) - just some of the things they do to celebrate the event.

What's going to happen to these 24 tables after the wedding?

For after the wedding we have a few option: sell them to the barn venue, sell them to the rental place the barn recommends ( this gives them tables that fit the venue), or or can store them indoors climate controlled so I may just rent them out myself.  If I rent them out 5 times I pay for the reception and table materials.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, legenddc said:

That's going to take up a lot of room. You're going to have 3' of table tops stacked on top of each other, never mind all the legs. I hope you have a massive shop if you're going to finish them all at the same time inside. Best of luck!

My shop is big enough to do 5 at a time.  36" x 96" tables

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, curlyoak said:

Hi welcome.

No, #2 pine is not flat. A few good boards are. 

That is a good idea. Usually waste the center of the board. If I am reading it right, don't edge the top with end grain pieces. Not a good idea from an engineering point of view.

 

Rip all. After the rip the glue edge may distort. A jointer is ideal. However a hand plane can do the work but you don't have enough time for that. Perhaps rip them all. Check the edge for a glue joint. If you have a lot of pieces that need edge work, your only choice due to time is to get those pieces to a jointer.

After a table is built, if kept in  dry conditions and room temperature it should be fine if you built it right for a very long time. If it gets in contact with people or animals  it may need sanding.

If there is space, build them all at once. It is best to completely build all the tables first. Then finishing. That is if all the work is done in one place. Because you do not want to turn on any power tools and have airborne saw dust. It will find the finish. Other than managing dust you can choose any combinations of building but efficiency lies in doing it all at once. If space allows...

I've been using a 80 tooth blade and it rips them pretty clean.  So far everything is coming true according to my squares.  If I end up with slight gaps it's ok because it just goes with the farm table look. 

To save time I'm using pocket screws for the glue up, I don't have nearly enough clamps. 

My storage area is climate controlled and I can store almost 30 completed tables.  I plan on move 5 at a time out of storage and into the shop for finishing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, weh729 said:

I also forgot to ask, what are your feelings on pre-stain conditioner?  Again, this is pine.

Works to minimize blotching makes color a bit lighter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, weh729 said:

I also forgot to ask, what are your feelings on pre-stain conditioner?  Again, this is pine.

If your staining, do not expect good results, whether you use conditioner or not. Either way it's gonna be ugly. Best results would come from spraying layers of dye until it's as dark as you want it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said:

All due respect to @drzaius, but "ugly" is in the eye of the beholder. What he like, I like, or you like is irrelevant, since it is your daughter's wedding. She wants pine farm tables, she gets pine farm tables. 

As for construction, I think you are on track, but don't have much time. My only advice is to follow the plan you outlined, get busy, and maybe build an extra table or two, just in case. No matter the condition of the lumber, an order that large leaves lots of room for Murphy to wreak havoc.

Maybe hire our resident speed demon, @Chestnut, then you can have them done by the weekend! :D

PS: remember that 1x12 lumber dressed from the mill will be 11.25" wide. After rip & glue, 3 boards give you a 33 3/8 panel, not 36". 56 boards is only about 2/3 of what you'll need for 24 tables.

Good catch, sorry I was a bit unclear on the 56.  I am picking up a partial order this weekend.  I will get more later.  This is enough for 14 tables. They will be 7 boards at 5 1/8" leaves me just under 36".

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree to rip now. After that, I’m overwhelmed!

Daughters are wonderful from the time they are born until they get to child bearing age. Skip a few years until they have a ring on their finger, then they become wonderful again.

Good luck OP! Wish you the best. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

All due respect to @drzaius, but "ugly" is in the eye of the beholder. What he like, I like, or you like is irrelevant, since it is your daughter's wedding. She wants pine farm tables, she gets pine farm tables. 

Of course your right. I tend to get a little overbearing & opinionated at times and I apologize for that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, drzaius said:

After my eldest daughter got married they gave me a t-shirt that had this printed on the front:

              NATIONAL BANK OF DAD

                             CLOSED

That bank is never closed..... :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see a future facebook/marketplace listing the making !

ripping the piece...letting them acclimate for a few weeks (construction lumber is too wet...), then reassemble them. Mark them so, you can glue them back together. In most case, the join will be very hard to distinguis.

 getting married in a three months <- that will be February ? unless you are way south, it will be inside. Can you put the wood in a  heated room + fan + dehumidifier for a week or 2 ? it will lower the MC, therefore the wood movement. My local wood supplier does not store soft lumber inside, but outside under a cover. Which mean, higher MC that it will be once inside. Some may cup or twist during the drying process, which is better than after the assembly ! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/22/2019 at 7:38 PM, wtnhighlander said:

Lot's of advise regarding wood movement & moisture, but pine does not necessarily equal construction grade lumber. Is the material coming from a 'lumber yard' for construction material, or an actual lumder dealer that sells quality, kiln-dried stock?

Thank you for all of the advice.  Saturday we got everything ripped, stacked and stickered.  It's in a heated area.  The lumber is not construction grade.  The lumber yard owner told me he switched supplier recently because this product is 95% clear but 30% of the cost of clear and all S4S.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.