lcp69

Dust collection advise

Recommended Posts

For dust collection in a small shop I currently use a 6.5 peak HP Craftsman shop vac and cyclone separator with an eight foot 2 1/2" flexible hose run to a lathe, mitre saw and table saw. Because I'm not happy with the results I  am considering an upgrade to a 4" inch run with dust collector capability over 1000 CFM...perhaps the Harbor Freight system.  However my saws have 2 1/2"  ports . According to an on line dust  design recommendation,  machines with less than a 3" port would be better off using a shop vac.  Would a dust collector over 1000 CFM be an upgrade over my shop vac since I would need to concert 4" hose for 2 1/2" ports?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, lcp69 said:

Would a dust collector over 1000 CFM be an upgrade over my shop vac since I would need to concert 4" hose for 2 1/2" ports?

Huge upgrade for something like a table saw, jointer, planer, band saw. But for hand held power tools like sanders, a vacuum is better. A shop vacuum generates high vacuum but low volume. A dust collector does the opposite. Your online source is generally correct.

What kind of saws do you have that only have 2 1/2" ports?

Be aware that the Harbor Freight spec is more than wildly optimistic, especially by the time there are a few feet of flex connected and it has a little dust in the filter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, lcp69 said:

a lathe, mitre saw and table saw

Two limiting factors on the dust collection you can achieve will be the nature of that type of machine and the design of that particular model.

Nothing will collect wood chips from a lathe, but a lot of the sanding dust can be pulled away and is good to get rid of.  For that, the high air flow of a DC is going to be much better.

SCM or CMS are also diificult beasts to tame.  They are designed with vacuum cleaner ports because they are meant to be portable.  I think the best approach is to build or buy some sort of hood to "gather" the dust which can then be directed to a DC or vac.

If your TS has a 2 1/2" port I'm guessing it's a small portable unit?  If so the limiting factor here will be the internal baffling to collect the dust.  

I wouldn't discourage your purchase of a DC.  In general a dust collector is going to be better at collecting dust, but I am not sure how much improvement you will see with your particular machines.  A lot depends on your expectations and your future power tool purchase plans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I got interrupted before I could finish on my  last post.

The HF collector can be turned into a pretty good unit by changing out the impeller with a larger one that's available from Rikon. Do a search for 'Rikonstein' for more info on that. Cost is very reasonable for that.

26 minutes ago, Mark J said:

SCM or CMS are also diificult beasts to tame.  They are designed with vacuum cleaner ports because they are meant to be portable.  I think the best approach is to build or buy some sort of hood to "gather" the dust which can then be directed to a DC or vac.

This is true. Most saws will only catch a small fraction of the dust. The Festool Kapex has good dust collection, but you'll have to take out a second mortgage to buy one & they have some pretty serious motor issues. The only reason I'd have one of those is if I had to work in finished customer areas where cleanliness is paramount. My own SMCS has very good dust collection, but it sits in an enclosed cubby with an 8" duct connected to a 5 HP collector.

Ignore my question about the saws. I should learn to read. The table saw, lathe & miter saw would definitely do better with the HF collector.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the advise!

It is a Dewalt table saw and Hitachi miter saw.  With the current setup I do see some sanding dust float into the lathe hood.  I don't have room for a planer.  I only use the portable planer outside.

I'm guessing the cost of a HF collector plus the Wynn canister filter and a super dust deputy would run $500-600. I might be reluctant to change out the impeller given the number of HF reviews on HF motors burning up. The Central Machinery dust collector reviews on Amazon aren't nearly as favorable as the HF Central Machinery dust collector reviews on the HF website. Putting a price tag on dust health risks may be folly, but can you provide thoughts on a reasonably priced dust collector system (under $1000) which would be an upgrade? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Miter saws aren't really great with any dust collection.  When I had the dewalt table saw, honestly the shop vac worked pretty well with it.   The dewalt blade is really tightly enclosed so there isn't a lot of volume of air to extract.   I wouldn't worry too much for right now. 

Even when I got a bandsaw the shopvac was ok.   It wasn't until you get a planer, jointer or a bigger table saw that you need more.

I have the original Dust Right collector from Rockler, and then I bought the Harbor Freight.  I pull a hose to each machine as I need it and for that they work ok.   The HF one draws like double the air of that little Rockler wall hanger and I'm impressed with it for the price.   But I do like how compact the wall hanger is, even though the bag fills up fast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At $500 - $600 you are well within the range of a decent bagger with a filter and wouldn't have to cobble something together.  Just an example:

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-2-HP-Canister-Dust-Collector-with-Aluminum-Impeller-Polar-Bear-Series/G0548ZP

Good info from those who are collecting from a CMS via a hood with a large port/DC.  High velocity spoil is a challenge; CMS, routers, circ-saws, etc.  Some tools do better with a DC and good air speed/volume whereas smaller tools often do better with a vac.  I think you will find that most folks run both.  Alas, the CMS is a challenge with a lot of solutions, all pretty involved.  You will have to make your choice based on what you can do and how much the CMS plays into your woodworking.  Folks who use them swear by them.  I only dig mine out of the shed if I am trimming out a bathroom or something similar.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know where you are located but I have a delta dust collector with wynn filter sitting in my garage that needs a home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, lcp69 said:

I looked at that Grizzly model. That $99 freight charge is annoying. Too bad that model/price is not on Amazon prime!

 

 

 

Even adding the price of shipping that is still pretty nice machine for the money.  I have a DC very similar to that in design that I have had for about 7 years.  At that time it sold for a little over $700.

Also  Have found that you need to be educated on your prices with Prime.  You think you are getting free shipping but their price of the item is higher, so maybe not so free.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, drzaius said:

There is no such thing as 'free shipping' or 'comes with a free gadget' etc. I wish they would just say that the price includes...

It's like the marketing wanks think we're all a bunch of morons.

Had to laugh at this.  Dad and I were JUST having this discussion when I opened this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, drzaius said:

There is no such thing as 'free shipping' or 'comes with a free gadget' etc. I wish they would just say that the price includes...

It's like the marketing wanks think we're all a bunch of morons.

Very true!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, drzaius said:

It's like the marketing wanks think we're all a bunch of morons.

Same as the whole .99 thing.  Everything is $9.99 or $19.99 or $29.99 ... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As an aside, your work habits can also influence the effectiveness of the DC you already have. For example, using the standard throat plate in your tablesaw unless the operation demands a zero clearance plate allows more air to flow past the blade and collect the dust. Slowing your feed rate to avoid over-filling the gullets between the blade's teeth helps, too.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Amazon Prime is a must-have from a shopping perspective, this Shop Fox (Grizzly!) is available: 

https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Fox-W1666-1550-Collector/dp/B00064NPXO/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Grizzly+G0548ZP+-+2+HP&qid=1574722976&sr=8-3#

It's just got a bag (not the nice canister the aforementioned Grizzly has) but it's...available via prime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have decided to purchase the 2HP 1550  cfm Shopfox and add a Wynn canister filter and a chip separator.   Looking for advise as to whether to install a six inch or four inch main line.  The machines it would be connected to are as follows:

A 36 inch HF lathe with a hood

A band saw with a 4 inch port

A miter saw with a 2 1/2 inch port  (and I will probably add a port for a hood)

A Dewalt "job site" table saw with a 2 1/2 inch port.

A six inch main line would need to be reduced to 4 inches then to 2 1/2 inches.

Or just go with a four inch main line?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd go 6".  

You'll never regret going bigger

You'll be set for upgrade later should you decide too.

Reduction should happen as close to the actual machine as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the advise.  I ask the question because I see different opinions on this.  The following is from Bill Pentz' website:

Ducting Reductions

Unlike big industrial sites, most hobbyists should run the same sized ducting, fittings and hose right up to their machines. Don't do like many and run a 6" or 8" main trunk line then come off with smaller duct or flex hose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, lcp69 said:

Thanks for the advise.  I ask the question because I see different opinions on this.  The following is from Bill Pentz' website:

Ducting Reductions

Unlike big industrial sites, most hobbyists should run the same sized ducting, fittings and hose right up to their machines. Don't do like many and run a 6" or 8" main trunk line then come off with smaller duct or flex hose.

I agree with that. The complex calculations done on duct sizing in a commercial shop are because of many machines running concurrently. If things aren't sized just right then some machines are starves while others have more airflow than needed. Throttling dampers are not a good solution because that can clog up & they can reduce velocity in an oversize duct to the point where spoil drops out of the air stream. In a hobby shop it's mostly just one machine at a time.

My shop has 8" trunks. the drops are 4", 6" or 8", depending on the machine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing that can be a problem with oversize ducts is that you can get spoil settling out. so for a vertical drop to a machine with only a 4" port, you may want to use a 4" duct. Otherwise it might tend to fill up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If going with a bagger, I have both a Grizzly, and a Woodtek with the thick bags.   The Woodtek is WAY WAY better.   Woodtek is the store brand of Woodworkers Supply, but I have always suspected that they come out of the same Taiwanese factory.  They also sell the DC with the same, cheaper bags sort of like the Grizzly comes with.  Stay away from those.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.