MJC

Setting up shop - Newbie needs advice

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Hello,

First let me just say thanks in advance for any advice given. I also want to say I am NOT your master woodworker so please keep your criticism to a minimum. I have never had anyone to show me how to do these things and have had to learn this stuff on my own so I am doing this by trial and error. I have made mistakes and spent money that I wish I hadn't spent but I learned along the way so I guess it was worth it. I have been trying to setup a workshop to do small projects in for some time now. I have a few tools and I am to the point where I feel like I am about out of space and I have everything I think I need (I know that's never possible). This is what I have right now as far as larger tools. I do have mostly all Dewalt  FlexVolt power tools. I think my favorite is the track saw by far.

Grizzly 14" Band Saw G0555X - w/ Bear Crawl Cub Mobile Base T28922 

Grizzly 14" Drill Press G7944 w/ Bear Crawl Heavy-Duty Mobile Base T28000

Grizzly 6" x 48" Belt/9" Disc Combo Sander G1014ZX w/ Bear Crawl Cub Mobile Base T28922 (that is being delivered tomorrow)

Kreg Router Table System w/ Porter Cable 7518 router (Advice received from here on the router).

I currently have a Dewalt Table Saw and Miter Saw built into my workbench but I was considering buying a Grizzly table saw. This is where I was looking for some advice. There are 2 things I want to get which are dust collection and the table saw. I was looking at the following models and was wondering if I could get some feedback. I can get the mobile base for the Grizzly saw and keep everything mobile to suit my needs due to space. I would take the top off the bench and just replace it with new wood so I would have a nice work top space. I have other solutions for Miter Saw so that is not an issue. The biggest thing I need right now though is dust collection because no matter what I do I spend a lot of time cleaning up due to the dust and I try to keep it very clean so my wife is not getting anything upstairs. I feel like I spend more time cleaning than I do working.

Table Saw - Grizzly G0691 - https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-10-3HP-220V-Cabinet-Table-Saw-with-Long-Rails-Riving-Knife/G0691

Portable Cyclone Dust Collector - Grizzly G0861 - https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-2-HP-Portable-Cyclone-Dust-Collector/G0861

I don't know much about either one of these but I have been reading about both. The problem is I have read so many mixed reviews and input from different sources and by time I get finished I am so confused by what to do I am no further ahead than I was when I started. The next day I start right over again reading more articles and reviews and it just turns into this cycle of "what to do and believe".

 

 

 

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shop2.jpg

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I do not own the table saw nor the dust collector you mention, but in terms of specs they look nice additions to your current compliment of tools. I have a Grizzly jointer and it's a fine tool for my purposes.

I would say at those price points you're going to find lots of options from many different manufacturers, and perhaps with rare exceptions minimal significant differences between those options. Laguna, for example, has a very similar saw at approximately the same price. There are boatloads of dust collectors in that price range.

Real duds are typically outed by overwhelmingly negative reviews (the less expensive planer-joiner combo machines come to mind here). I don't think this happens to be the case for either of the items you're considering for your shop.

If you have had success with your Grizzly tools to date, and have also had enjoyed buying from them (assuming you got your drill press and bandsaw new), there's little reason to believe you'd have a bad time with either that table saw or dust collector. If you don't mind scouring the internet a little you might be able to find a better deal on "more" saw (via an older used Powermatic perhaps), but there is certainly something to be said for buying new and not inheriting a prior owner's issues. 

If you can afford these items without endangering your financial/familial wellbeing, you don't have serious complaints about your Grizzly tools or Grizzly in general, and you'd rather be woodworking than pulling your hair out comparing tools and reading reviews...I say pull the trigger. Very worst-case scenario you can get to work with the tools and, with more experience, decide you want bigger motors or different capabilities (or whatever) and sell them to partially fund something new. Perhaps start with the dust collector and focus on getting it set up for your space and current workflows. I think you'll be happy. 

 

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First, that's an awesome shop. Clean organized with a good amount of space. Mobile tools are always good, even if they don't move ever (like mine) it's still helpful when that setscrew falls out on a pulley or some maintenance needs to be done.

There are mixed reviews on grizzly tools but over all i look at them as a mediocre tool that gets good support from it's company. This is better than a good tool that receives poor support. It sucks when a problem happens but if the company takes care of you it makes life a lot easier.

I had that table saw for a long time. Is it a good saw, no not really but it gets the job done. Personally for your setup I'd fill holes in a tool lineup before you start replacing tools. Look at the types of projects you complete, or the types of projects you want to complete and fill in your gaps that way. From a 500 foot view i see you don't have a jointer or planer. A jointer and planer will make all the difference in the world to keeping projects strait and square. Looking back i don't know how I ever managed making the things I did with out them. If i had to choose between [ dewalt job site saw, jointer, planer] and [ cabinet saw and no jointer and no planer] I'd take the job site saw every single time. (all of my core stock ripping is done on my bandsaw... table saw is for crosscuts, daddos, and tenons)

Dust collection gets more important once a jointer and planer is added. My thoughts on DC are get the harbor freight DC and either run it as is and save for a big unit, or mod the HF dc into a 2 stage unit. I planned to mod my old HF DC to a two stage unit but found out It wouldn't save me a ton of money and would take a lot of time and effort that I didn't really want to do. The best part of the HF DC is they can be found used for cheap or if bought new can be sold easily and recover a good potion (60%-70%) of the initial cost. Those short cyclones don't separate well and honestly I'd recommend getting a single stage unit with a bag and save all the extra money. The cyclone is so small they don't end up accomplishing much.

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8 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

First, that's an awesome shop. Clean organized with a good amount of space. Mobile tools are always good, even if they don't move ever (like mine) it's still helpful when that setscrew falls out on a pulley or some maintenance needs to be done.

There are mixed reviews on grizzly tools but over all i look at them as a mediocre tool that gets good support from it's company. This is better than a good tool that receives poor support. It sucks when a problem happens but if the company takes care of you it makes life a lot easier.

I had that table saw for a long time. Is it a good saw, no not really but it gets the job done. Personally for your setup I'd fill holes in a tool lineup before you start replacing tools. Look at the types of projects you complete, or the types of projects you want to complete and fill in your gaps that way. From a 500 foot view i see you don't have a jointer or planer. A jointer and planer will make all the difference in the world to keeping projects strait and square. Looking back i don't know how I ever managed making the things I did with out them. If i had to choose between [ dewalt job site saw, jointer, planer] and [ cabinet saw and no jointer and no planer] I'd take the job site saw every single time. (all of my core stock ripping is done on my bandsaw... table saw is for crosscuts, daddos, and tenons)

Dust collection gets more important once a jointer and planer is added. My thoughts on DC are get the harbor freight DC and either run it as is and save for a big unit, or mod the HF dc into a 2 stage unit. I planned to mod my old HF DC to a two stage unit but found out It wouldn't save me a ton of money and would take a lot of time and effort that I didn't really want to do. The best part of the HF DC is they can be found used for cheap or if bought new can be sold easily and recover a good potion (60%-70%) of the initial cost. Those short cyclones don't separate well and honestly I'd recommend getting a single stage unit with a bag and save all the extra money. The cyclone is so small they don't end up accomplishing much.

Ok you make a good point and I ALWAYS fight with things being square so now you have me thinking do I really need the saw and how much more I could benefit with a jointer and planer. So with that thought in mind and although you might not buy Grizzly, IF you were going to buy this brand which one would you go with? I still need to get DC and you mention 2 stage which the unit I mentioned is so do you think it would be sufficient? As for the jointer I would budget myself around $1300 for the machine itself.

I haven't used the Band Saw or the Drill Press yet and just put those together. Yes I have been doing some retail therapy as my wife likes to call it when she shops. She is just glad this stuff fits in the basement. Usually when I get in a mood it goes in the garage but since I am out of room that isn't an option right now.

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If you work a lot with surface lumber you could easily get away with just a jointer. This will get edges strait which will help for keeping things square and panels flat.

Jointer: A simple 6" jointer like (https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-6-x-48-Jointer-with-Cabinet-Stand/G0814) or (https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-6-x-46-Jointer-w-Spiral-Cutterhead/G0452Z) would do the job quite well. Helical head will solve the blade replacement hassle but comes with the extra cost. They can be easily sold or bought used if the time comes to upgrade.

Planer, DW735x hands down best planer for the money. I wouldn't bother getting anything different unless your milling for own lumber and have to run 400-500 BF through your planer every year, which is a LOT of wood.

Dust collector: I'm biased on this. I'd either get the HF unit (https://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html) or go all out and get a clear vue (https://www.clearvuecyclones.com/cyclone-bundles/66-cv1800-lh-1p-cyclone-bundle-with-filters.html). I personally don't put much stock in the middle ground. If middle ground is what you seek see below.

The unit you linked has a 1 micron filter so it's not going to filter very well and the short cyclone won't separate very well. For under $1,000 you could get the HF unit and a super dust deputy (https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-deputy/dust-collector-kits/super-dust-deputy-5-inch-cyclone-separator),a wyn filter (https://wynnenv.com/products-page/cyclone-filter-pricing/), rikon impeller (https://www.rikonparts.com/product/60-200) and make your own 2 stage that would probably function as good or better. Subtotal cost $709 + tax and shipping. You'll need a dust bin, you could use a metal trash can or 35-55 gallon drum or even a fiber drum. Some odds and ends and a bit of ingenuity are also required. The biggest benefit is an inexpensive unit that can be very flexible for low ceilings.

If you prefer to throw money at the problem, which i don't advise but I do understand, the Oneida supercell is a compelling option.

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My advice for a table saw is get the SawStop.  I had the Grizzly first but getting the SawStop was a night and day difference.  In addition to the safety feature, it is simply the best built, best designed, best supported piece of equipment I have ever owned (and that includes tools from Powermatic, Laguna, Grizzly, Jet, etc.).  I know there are many who feel that SawStop is all hype or don't like how they came to be a major player in the field, but as an amateur woodworker who can use all the help I can get to do decent quality work, the SawStop has been worth every penny. 

I also agree with the advice on the planer and jointer.  Both of mine are Grizzly with helical heads and I have been VERY happy with them.  See, I am not a Grizzly basher after all!  :-)

Good luck!

Jim

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It just goes to show you that everyone works differently. For me, I don't have a jointer, but I can't imagine working without my planer. I usually buy rough stock, and I'll quickly flatten one side with a hand plane before using the planer. I use a straight line rip jig on the table saw to get my edges close to jointed, but if it's a critical glue up I'll use a hand plane too. You need a somewhat substantial table saw to use a jig like that safely (I wouldn't try it on a job site saw).

@Chestnut is right that dust collection should be up there on your list. I went the route of buying a small 1 HP collector and adding a dust deputy and canister filter. I went that route mainly for space constraints, but I ended up with a setup that's almost the size of a short cyclone but not as powerful (but also at just over half the cost).

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What car is under the cover?

You didn't say what you want to work on. If you're only going to use plywood a jointer and planer might not matter. If you just want to turn things on a lathe, you might not need any of that. For what I do, I would get a jointer, planer and Harbor Freight dust collector. Then again, if you can afford the best now, go for it.

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59 minutes ago, legenddc said:

What car is under the cover?

You didn't say what you want to work on. If you're only going to use plywood a jointer and planer might not matter. If you just want to turn things on a lathe, you might not need any of that. For what I do, I would get a jointer, planer and Harbor Freight dust collector. Then again, if you can afford the best now, go for it.

That would be a Z06 Corvette and the car below is a 2019 S560.

I don't have anything in particular I am working on daily. I do this to escape my normal work and to clear my mind. If I see something online I think would be good to learn then I don't mind trying it. I am not building stuff to show or sell. I take pride in what I do and I am OCD about things but I don't have the knowledge yet to do what id like to do.

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Is there a reason you are looking at short cones?  I seem to recall you mentioned in another post that you have 11 foot ceilings.

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The 11' ceilings are in my garage. I don't know what the dimensions are or the pros and cons to the different systems. I want to get something I can move around but that is ready to go. I am not really big on HF so that option does not interest me at all. I want something that works good and the quality is there. If the Clear Vue option is the way to go I don't mind spending the money but is that system designed to be setup and you have to run lines around shop?

I am not against this option later but for now I would like to have a great DC that I can move around where I want.

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46 minutes ago, MJC said:

I am not against this option later but for now I would like to have a great DC that I can move around where I want.

Balancing cost size and portability (https://www.oneida-air.com/dust-collectors/1-5-hp-mini-gorilla-cyclone-dust-collector) I really feel the dust gorilla meets the categories. It won't be a forever dust collector. You'll get to a point when you'll need something better and you'll know it when that happens. The Oneida collector is not that much more than the Grizzly that you linked with 1 HUGE difference a HEPA filter. You've mentioned that your in a basement which means dust is probably a factor (also your pictures show immaculately clean work spaces). The grizly collector has a 1 micron filter. That's going to leave a fine film on every surface when you use it. I have an Oneida collector in my shop and their filters are good (as are wyn and clear vue but they don't offer the gorilla i liked above).

I take that back the dust gorilla really could be the last collector you ever buy. It'd probably meet my needs if I had a smaller shop.

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Chestnut,

Thanks for sharing this link and all your input. This is the kind of information I needed because without it I was pretty well set on buying the Grizzly DC. I am not a fan of the color but I suppose I can get used to it. I think this is the unit I will go with. I do not have any fittings right now and I currently use a shop vac to hook up to stuff. Yes I am ashamed to say I have to use tape sometimes to make it work because the size doesn't quite fit. Do you know kit out there that has pretty much everything I would need in it?

Thanks again!

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13 minutes ago, MJC said:

Chestnut,

Thanks for sharing this link and all your input. This is the kind of information I needed because without it I was pretty well set on buying the Grizzly DC. I am not a fan of the color but I suppose I can get used to it. I think this is the unit I will go with. I do not have any fittings right now and I currently use a shop vac to hook up to stuff. Yes I am ashamed to say I have to use tape sometimes to make it work because the size doesn't quite fit. Do you know kit out there that has pretty much everything I would need in it?

Thanks again!

I hate to recommend this because of it's cost but this system really is as good as it gets for a portable DC that you switch between tools.

https://www.rockler.com/rockler-dust-right-quick-change-multi-port-tool-set

Additional 4" ports if you need them

https://www.rockler.com/dust-right-4-tool-ports

More accessories and hoses can be found here.

https://www.rockler.com/power-tools/dust-collection/dust-collection-fittings

If it makes to feel better getting over charged (imo) rockler does do a good job sponsoring woodworkers that make free content on youtube. Their staff is very helpful as well. I have a few stores near by but I assume it's much the same if you have to call or email for customer service.

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Chestnut,

I shop for quality and convenience. Sometimes I buy things twice because I buy to quickly so I end up having to do it right the second time.  Thanks for the additional info! I will be ordering tonight or tomorrow morning!

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1 hour ago, Chestnut said:

I hate to recommend this because of it's cost but this system really is as good as it gets for a portable DC that you switch between tools.

https://www.rockler.com/rockler-dust-right-quick-change-multi-port-tool-set

Additional 4" ports if you need them

https://www.rockler.com/dust-right-4-tool-ports

More accessories and hoses can be found here.

https://www.rockler.com/power-tools/dust-collection/dust-collection-fittings

If it makes to feel better getting over charged (imo) rockler does do a good job sponsoring woodworkers that make free content on youtube. Their staff is very helpful as well. I have a few stores near by but I assume it's much the same if you have to call or email for customer service.

Nut, you're stuttering again.

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I think, once you get use to your band saw, you’ll be surprised at how of a much load off of your ts it will take. I have the same bs and am pleased.

@..Kev, our admin. here has done some extensive research on table saws and I suspect he will chime in soon on his findings. From the looks of your rides, I suspect that you would rather invest in quality and get it right the first time. 

What are the dimensions of your shop area? 

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The only “clutter” I see is a squeeze. If I showed that pic to my wife, she’d be looking for another “garage”. Under cover is mentioned above. 

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3 hours ago, Coop said:

I think, once you get use to your band saw, you’ll be surprised at how of a much load off of your ts it will take. I have the same bs and am pleased.

@..Kev, our admin. here has done some extensive research on table saws and I suspect he will chime in soon on his findings. From the looks of your rides, I suspect that you would rather invest in quality and get it right the first time. 

What are the dimensions of your shop area? 

Yes I like to get good quality stuff. As for the work area I will have to get that tomorrow.

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6 hours ago, Coop said:

The only “clutter” I see is a squeeze. If I showed that pic to my wife, she’d be looking for another “garage”. Under cover is mentioned above. 

Took a little while to catch up on this thread and I'll admit I didn't read it all..

First off, making things flat and square should be the first thing.  So, that's either a jointer and a planer or some form of hand tool option to accomplish that.  People automatically assume the hand tool options is cheaper but, you also have to consider a sturdy bench with the hand tool option and we all know how much money you could dump into that "sturdy work bench".  Dewalt 735 and an 8" jointer should last you just about as long as you want and you won't need to replace them.

As for the saw, if you're going to stick with Grizz, I'd be looking at the 1023 but, that's just me.  I would also be looking at the new offerings from Harvy.  https://www.harveywoodworking.com/collections/ambassador

Dust Collection - You mentioned that you wanted it to be mobile.  I started this way but, once I installed a little duct work I never looked back.  When things are set up and ready to go, you have a lot less tendency to skip that step or task because there's more work involved.

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I just caught up with this also. Sounds like you are not too terribly restrained by finances, but still clearly a factor. Your budget should allow you to purchase tools that will serve you well for a very long time, if not for as long as you do woodworking. 

As with Nut and Coop, I do so much more of my rough cuts on the bandsaw, only use the tablesaw for joint work and precise dimensioning of the wood. As with @JimReed, I love my SawStop. Precise machine, some of the best dust collection around, and great safety features. As a dentist I put that priority way up there.

But, I totally agree with the many others that recommend a jointer and planer before a new tablesaw. Investing in these opens up a whole new world of precision and allows you to use rough sawn lumber. I started with a 6" jointer and a Dewalt planer over 20 years ago. I now have the Dewalt planer (the 735 mentioned before) and a 8" jointer. If I was smart I would have started with the 8". You can get by without the jointer for a while with a tablesaw, tracksaw,  and a planer if you use a sled for your planer and the track saw and tablesaw for fairly precise edging.

In your initial post you listed your power tools, but not sanders or other woodworking specific tools. If you have these things than I apologize, but these are important additions to my shop. First you need a dedicated vac for your sanders, I use festool and love it, totally love it for dust control. There are other brands out there, whichever brand for me one of these systems are critical. Secondly, if you have the funds, not a necessary tool but a great tool is the Festool Domino. Festool is over priced and I only own their sanders and the Domino because they are great tools. 

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3 hours ago, ..Kev said:

I would also be looking at the new offerings from Harvy.  https://www.harveywoodworking.com/collections/ambassador

Thanks for sharing this. I've been wondering how long it was going to be until Harvy started with more offerings in the US. Now to see how their quality turns out. I'm assuming it's goign to be good as this is the company that bought Bridge City.

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