What came in the mail today?


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Today this flew into the shop

This took 7 months to get to me.

30 bdft of quartersawn white oak and 10bdft of maple from Bell Forest.  

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11 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

@Chestnut, do you find those Irwin bits a Lowes? My local store seems to have only Dewalt (good), Craftsman (not so good), and random other (total garbage) brands. None of which have different tips at each end. Those look very handy.

I used to get them at the local box store then they stopped carrying Irwin. These were from Amazon.

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I'm a couple days behind, but this little respirator came recently.

20201207_053023.thumb.jpg.0cebdd2335bd5d88d7d076bde5cd77cc.jpg

Wife ordered it for me, after hearing me complain about the fit of my bulky 3M cartridge respirator. This one is compact, fits my face much better, and has wider straps that don't cut into the back of my neck, so now I actually wear it. Winner all around!

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1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said:

but this little respirator came recently.

Can you swap VOC cartridges on that? I see they have an option with VOC cartridges but it's not clear if the mask will accept both.

The only reason i like the 3M masks is because they are everywhere and it's easy to get replacement filters. I also can switch between dust and VOC filters as needed.

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To jump into the driver bit discussion, my favorites are Wiha Terminators.  My least favorites, actually hate them, are Milwaukee.

Any Milwaukee bit I've ever bought is now under about 45 feet of water.  It shares the space with other stuff that is also only good for seeing how far you can throw it.  Driver bits are one of those things that needs to fit tight.

I've put on several complete metal roofs with one Wiha #2 square drive bit, and will use it again this Saturday.  Just ordered a pair of #2 Phillips off Amazon this morning.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B016YW921K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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19 minutes ago, Tom King said:

My least favorites, actually hate them, are Milwaukee

Of the 8 or 10 brands of bits I've bought in the last decade or so, the Milwaukee shock wave bits are probably the worst. I just can't figure out why they would tarnish their decent reputation by selling such crap bits.

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Interesting that Milwaukee has awful bits their tools seem highly regarded. I hardly ever use #2 square, i tried them oh 15 years ago and had awful luck with cam out and stripping of bits and fasteners. Switched to T25 Torx and haven't looked back. I can get T25 screws for the same price as #2 phillips or #2 square so it's a no brainier.

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The only use I have for the square drive bits are for the flat head, pancake screws used for putting on standing seam metal roofs.  I wish they were TORX too, but that's the only way they come.

The color coded Star Drive (TORX) bits (forget the brand name), sold in the box stores, are fine.  Even if the Wiha are slightly better, the color coding makes them my first choice for star drive.

Yes, absolutely star drive are first choice.

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5 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Interesting that Milwaukee has awful bits their tools seem highly regarded. I hardly ever use #2 square, i tried them oh 15 years ago and had awful luck with cam out and stripping of bits and fasteners. Switched to T25 Torx and haven't looked back. I can get T25 screws for the same price as #2 phillips or #2 square so it's a no brainier.

I've used mostly Robertson screws all my life, most of them #2 drive.

The advantage to Robertson is that the screw will be securely held by the bit, with no tendency to wobble or fall off. The caveat is that both the screw & bit must be quality items. And using an impact driver will always result in less cam out than a drill.

I really like Torx, but the little bit of wobble on the bit sometimes makes things difficult.

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3 minutes ago, Tpt life said:

Torx are tapered. Good Torx will not wobble at all. When they do, throw the bit and grab another. 

Even a good Torx (at least any I've used) will have some play between the bit & screw, enough that you can shake the screw off the bit. A good Robertson bit/screw fit will not do that. You actually have to pull the screw off the bit.

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2 minutes ago, drzaius said:

Even a good Torx (at least any I've used) will have some play between the bit & screw, enough that you can shake the screw off the bit. A good Robertson bit/screw fit will not do that. You actually have to pull the screw off the bit.

Sorry, you used trash bits or screws. Everything you just said about Robertson is true of Torx. That is not opinion, that is several tens of thousands of screws driven in my building career over the last twenty years. I have only ever experienced what you describe when bits wear out. Let me get home tonight and I will post some video. 

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5 minutes ago, drzaius said:

Even a good Torx (at least any I've used) will have some play between the bit & screw, enough that you can shake the screw off the bit. A good Robertson bit/screw fit will not do that. You actually have to pull the screw off the bit.

With the bits and screws available to me there isn't any play. I can mount the screw on the bit and sink it 1 handed.

Now I realize I'm doing it wrong. Most of my issues with #2 square stem from if you are not perfectly centered over the screw it cams out easier. Any deflection between bit and driver is game over. From my experience you have a lot more flexibility on torx with the deflection angle. Also if you exceed that angle the screws tend to stay intact better and i have more success removing the screw and tossing it.

When I'm face down in a crawl space and I'm trying to sink a screw behind my head i appreciate this.

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I think I'm scared from my Jeep towards Torx screws/bolts.

I haven't tried any Ryobi driver bits but their drill bits are so bad. Needed a cheap one to get dirty. Broke 1 of the 4 after drilling 1 hole. None of them could drill a remotely straight hole. So much wobble right out of the gate. I saved the other 3 in case someone I despise needs to borrow a drill bit... :D

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4 minutes ago, Tpt life said:

Sorry, you used trash bits or screws. Everything you just said about Robertson is true of Torx. That is not opinion, that is several tens of thousands of screws driven in my building career over the last twenty years. I have only ever experienced what you describe when bits wear out. Let me get home tonight and I will post some video. 

This is good to know. I guess Torx just hasn't moved as heavily into the supply stream here. The best ones I've used were when I laid down the ipe on my deck, using Torx trim screws. the bit I bought with the screws lasted until I had 30 or 40 screws left. I got some new bits at HD & it probably took 3 bits to finish. But even the good 1st bit didn't hold the screws as well as a Robertson.

If I can find a good source of good quality Torx, I'd probably switch because they to handle more torque, it seems.

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7 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

With the bits and screws available to me there isn't any play. I can mount the screw on the bit and sink it 1 handed.

Now I realize I'm doing it wrong. Most of my issues with #2 square stem from if you are not perfectly centered over the screw it cams out easier. Any deflection between bit and driver is game over. From my experience you have a lot more flexibility on torx with the deflection angle. Also if you exceed that angle the screws tend to stay intact better and i have more success removing the screw and tossing it.

When I'm face down in a crawl space and I'm trying to sink a screw behind my head i appreciate this.

I can see the advantage of Torx in those situations, but as I posted above, I've just not found the quality of screws that work that well.

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I'm lucky that the home store near me carries torx at the same price as square or phillips. The screws are good quality. I fully understand that there are supply stream issues and a lot of that is regional. Canada LOVES the square drive for some reason. Don't get me wrong it's good, better than Phillips much better.

7 minutes ago, drzaius said:

This is good to know. I guess Torx just hasn't moved as heavily into the supply stream here. The best ones I've used were when I laid down the ipe on my deck, using Torx trim screws. the bit I bought with the screws lasted until I had 30 or 40 screws left. I got some new bits at HD & it probably took 3 bits to finish. But even the good 1st bit didn't hold the screws as well as a Robertson.

If I can find a good source of good quality Torx, I'd probably switch because they to handle more torque, it seems.

The bits included in the box of screws are probably the worst bit you could use. It's embarrassing that they even include them.

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5 hours ago, Chestnut said:

Can you swap VOC cartridges on that? I see they have an option with VOC cartridges but it's not clear if the mask will accept both.

The only reason i like the 3M masks is because they are everywhere and it's easy to get replacement filters. I also can switch between dust and VOC filters as needed.

The filters are replaceable, but I have not investigated the VOC ratings. This is sold as a welder's mask, and comes with P100 particulate filters, claiming to remove 99.97 of weld fumes, hexavalent chrome, and a couple other nasties. There seems to be some sort of carbon add-on layer available for removing "nuisance-level organic vapors".

I originally purchased the 3M masks for the same reasons you did, but it never fit well. Then when COVID arrived, the 3M masks and replacement cartridges evaporated from every supplier in town.

 

A brief search indicates this version would be necessary for actual VOC protection.

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2 hours ago, Chestnut said:

From my experience you have a lot more flexibility on torx with the deflection angle. 

 

That flexibility allows torx screws to be used with a drywall screw driver, really saved me a ton of time driving screws to a consistent depth through 1000 sq. ft. of treated decking a couple years ago.

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4 hours ago, Tpt life said:

Sorry, you used trash bits or screws. Everything you just said about Robertson is true of Torx. That is not opinion, that is several tens of thousands of screws driven in my building career over the last twenty years. I have only ever experienced what you describe when bits wear out. Let me get home tonight and I will post some video. 

What brand bits and screws do you use?

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Decided to get a cordless to accompany my vecutro.  This one is a lot more aggressive. I didn’t take note of either stroke length but the Milwaukee feels double.  Great for quick cuts but a little bit harder to be precise.  Maybe I just need o get used to it. 

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