Islanderwi Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi folks, I am considering taking on the construction of an outdoor cedar hot tub. I want to build it using a joint that I have seen in use by kits I have assembled. The joint is called a canoe joint and it is used on 2x6 edges. I looked online to purchase a shaper/router bit set to achieve this joint and have only found ones that have smaller radius than i require for my staves. Any help you can provide in a source for this bit set would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 I think these are what you're talking about. http://www.buyfreudtools.com/?page=Product.Product&externalId=3941 and I can't find the exact one, but this http://www.buyfreudtools.com/index.php?page=Product.Product&externalId=4978 I hope that puts you on the right track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryangel69 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 It has been a really long time since I heard anybody mention a canoe joint. Isn't that a two bit set. Female and male mating convex and concave, or is it an interlocking joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stampy Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 If you don't get an answer here, I'd see if Wooden Boat magazine has a forum to ask this question in. It's a Taunton Press mag just like Fine Working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Z. Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 If you don't get an answer here, I'd see if Wooden Boat magazine has a forum to ask this question in. It's a Taunton Press mag just like Fine Working. WoodenBoat.com would be a great resource. But I have to point out, it is NOT a Taunton Press mag. WoodenBoat, Professional Boatbuilder and Small Boats are all WoodenBoat publications. www.woodenboat.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hi folks, I am considering taking on the construction of an outdoor cedar hot tub. I want to build it using a joint that I have seen in use by kits I have assembled. The joint is called a canoe joint and it is used on 2x6 edges. I looked online to purchase a shaper/router bit set to achieve this joint and have only found ones that have smaller radius than i require for my staves. Any help you can provide in a source for this bit set would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Jerry I guess the problem with searching for canoe joint bits is that nobody makes canoes with 1-1/2" thick walls! Instead, try searching for "half round" bits to make the concave part of the joint, and "bull nose" and/or "bullnose" and/or "round nose" and/or "round over" and/or "rounding over" bits to make the convex part of the joint. Here are some links to some likely Freud bits. It looks like they have some that are big enough for what you need. Other manufacturers surely make similar ones. Half Round Round Nose Rounding Over -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryangel69 Posted March 1, 2011 Report Share Posted March 1, 2011 Only thing I could find were shaper bits, but it is going to take a big unit. http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/971.html http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/973.html I those are not what you are looking for let me know I will look again. I would think the bullnose would be easy just two passes across a roundover. Its that big flute. I did not look up any table saw molding cutters. I have heard of companies that custom make those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islanderwi Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 It has been a really long time since I heard anybody mention a canoe joint. Isn't that a two bit set. Female and male mating convex and concave, or is it an interlocking joint. yes you have described the joint as i have seen it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islanderwi Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Only thing I could find were shaper bits, but it is going to take a big unit. http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/971.html http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/973.html I those are not what you are looking for let me know I will look again. I would think the bullnose would be easy just two passes across a roundover. Its that big flute. I did not look up any table saw molding cutters. I have heard of companies that custom make those. You are right on target with these thanks so much. I have been researching cost of materials. I have been quoted prices of $6 plus dollars for c and better western red cedar in 2x6 per lf. I am thinking that maybe I could use white oak instead as the material costs are substantially less for that here in Wisconsin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 You are right on target with these thanks so much. I have been researching cost of materials. I have been quoted prices of $6 plus dollars for c and better western red cedar in 2x6 per lf. I am thinking that maybe I could use white oak instead as the material costs are substantially less for that here in Wisconsin. I would think the white oak would work. They make great wine in white oak barrels. Trust me, I know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Z. Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 As I think about this a little more, a few things come to mind: White Oak would work. So would redwood. Not sure on the prices in your neck of the woods, but the redwood would be far easier to work. Other choices would be douglas fir or even sassafras. All depends on prices near your local supplier. Another idea (back to WoodenBoat Magazine type stuff) is to check pricing at places like M.L. Condon. You'd have to pay shipping, but it may be cheaper compared to your local supplier. Noah's is a company in Ontario (they advertise in several boatbuilding mags), and they specialize in Cedar Strip construction. They may have the wood you need pre-shaped (not sure, 1 1/2 inch is big for a stripper of any type). You'd pay more for the milling, but what is your time worth? For 1 1/2 inch bead and cove, you'll probably need a shaper, not a router. Another thought is that in boat building, the advantage of bead and cove is that the bevel changes as you plank, moving up the constantly moving shape of the boat. The bead and cove makes up for this changing shape. A tub, on the other hand, has a constant bevel. Have you considered just cutting that bevel on the tablesaw? You could also make it a splined bevel joint, which would aid in alignment/gluing. Just some random thoughts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejarvi Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 I would think the white oak would work. They make great wine in white oak barrels. Trust me, I know! Bourbon too! Hic. Add a little char on the inside and we're good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Slack Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 What about cypress? and on the router bit you could research for bits for entry doors stock and will have something for giving you a better glue joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSawitFirst Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 2x material seems very thick. I don't know how you plan to structure this thing but I'd look for a way to cut down the span of these boards and use 3/4 material. If the hot tub is 36" tall you could band it at 18", top and bottom and have only an 18" span. 3/4 would easily span that. I'd also be concerned about bacteria on the wood's surface. Most hot tubs have a fiberglass/acrylic unit with cedar around it. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islanderwi Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 2x material seems very thick. I don't know how you plan to structure this thing but I'd look for a way to cut down the span of these boards and use 3/4 material. If the hot tub is 36" tall you could band it at 18", top and bottom and have only an 18" span. 3/4 would easily span that. I'd also be concerned about bacteria on the wood's surface. Most hot tubs have a fiberglass/acrylic unit with cedar around it. Good luck! The tub pictured here is what I assembled for a customer a few years ago, http://www.cedartubs.com/images/measurments/5-metric-standard-large.jpg, I am using this as a guide for my own design. It implemented the cvg western red cedar and the canoe joint, the bottom was rabbited into the 2x6 - 48" tall staves and secured outside with the SS banding. I have easy access to white oak that is 3/4 thick and considering the attempt to fabricate the tub with this material, I have a concern if the oak would be strong enough in that thickness and I realize that my stave to bottom joint depth would only be about 3/8" deep dado. However, rather than purchasing 6/4 oak to make the staves I am also considering using a waterproof glue to glue up the oak I have to make 1 1/2 " thick staves. The canoe joint on the cedar has been watertight thru several seasons, drainings and refills. If I could afford the cedar I would do it with that material but it really is prohibitive. The Doug fir option mentioned by other posters is intriguing. I was not planning on putting any sealer on the interior of the tub. So it goes back to how the different species of wood would resist rot and respond to wet and dry conditions. well lots of things to consider. Thanks again for all your input! Once it warms up in my unheated shop I am going to start the project and hope to be soaking my mid May. I will post pictures and probably be looking for more input as I begin sizing up my materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all5ofus@ptd.net Posted May 25, 2020 Report Share Posted May 25, 2020 I am wondering if a wine barrel could be made using a canoe joint. I know that traditionally, barrels have a bulge in the middle, I believe this was just to make them easier to move. I am thinking that they could just be cylindrical. If a hot tub can hold water, why not add a top, and hold whiskey or wine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted May 25, 2020 Report Share Posted May 25, 2020 I think you'll see that that post is nearly 10 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted May 25, 2020 Report Share Posted May 25, 2020 11 hours ago, all5ofus@ptd.net said: I am wondering if a wine barrel could be made using a canoe joint. I know that traditionally, barrels have a bulge in the middle, I believe this was just to make them easier to move. I am thinking that they could just be cylindrical. If a hot tub can hold water, why not add a top, and hold whiskey or wine. Not sure about whiskey, but wine produces gasses during the fermentation process that increase the pressure inside the barrel. The curved shape provides more strength at the wall to top/bottom corners, reducing the chance of leaks as the pressure changes. An open tub has constant pressure, so straight walls are fine. Most wood construction details that seem a little odd were developed in response to how wood moves over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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