Why do home shops and youtubers hate / fear shapers?


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I don’t have room for a ROS. 

This discussion comes around every couple of years. I think most of it comes down to the type of work we do as hobbyists vs. pros. A shaper is great for moldings and edge profiles, but how can it do w

Sweet then I'm a very bad professional woodworker and my hobby is engineering....

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In cabinet shops we cut all parts to length. The ends of all rails are milled and then all lengths are ran...

I did notice your bragging about having shapers on Lumberjocks..Happy for ya... 

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18 minutes ago, BillyJack said:

In cabinet shops we cut all parts to length. The ends of all rails are milled and then all lengths are ran...

Different shops different methods. Bigger shops running sticking on a moulder are coping after.  Again I didn't come up with it, it just works with my work flow. Sogncabinets (not running a moulder) turned me on to left and right copes.

Run sticking, cut to length, cope. Keeps those 3" long rails from being sucked into the head, without having to use a jig. Yes the track feeders or dc70 would work better for shorts.

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You know I worked in residential and commercial shops for 30 years right. From 1983-2013. Why most shops use Weaver brand shapers. When I worked for a Regency Cabinets in Bates City , Mo. They ran 2 sets a day and 10 sets a week. If it was a 4 plex they would do 4 sets a day..they had 9 weaver shapers  plus a MDF door machine...

 

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On 8/31/2020 at 11:30 AM, BillyJack said:

You know I worked in residential and commercial shops for 30 years right. From 1983-2013. Why most shops use Weaver brand shapers. When I worked for a Regency Cabinets in Bates City , Mo. They ran 2 sets a day and 10 sets a week. If it was a 4 plex they would do 4 sets a day..they had 9 weaver shapers  plus a MDF door machine...

 

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Not saying you don't know what you are talking about.  There are about 100 ways to skin a cabinet cat. (Id like that ritter door clamp if i had more space)

This was off a woodweb thread. 

And since you posted a ritter door table, here is a ritter double spindle cope machine.

 

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Except we don't run door parts in that order with weaver shapers...cabinet shops run doors through an overhead sander a whole set at a time..the doors are taken to edge sander and then to be profiled on the edge. After that there given a quick once over with an ROS and then hinged and installed. Some shops will drill for handles before installed and some do it after there applied to the cabinets..

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I hope @Jar944 has read enough of these forums that most of us 'hobbyists' spend far more time sorting through the lumber stack to find matching color and grain, than actually cutting the joints. :lol:

Shapers are great for what they are great at, but even if you gave me one, I wouldn't be able to use it. No space for another machine. A bandsaw would come first, if there was.

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1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said:

Shapers are great for what they are great at, but even if you gave me one, I wouldn't be able to use it. No space for another machine. A bandsaw would come first, if there was.

Same here. There's a pretty good list of machines I don't have (that I want) that would come before a shaper. I'm in part of a single car garage, which isn't uncommon for hobbyists. I want (but can't really fit) all of these:

1. Band saw

2. Drum Sander

3. Jointer

4. Cabinet saw

5. CNC

6. Spindle sander

7. Bigger cyclone dust collector

8. Miter saw station

9. Pantorouter

If I had all those and space left over, I might be interested in the shaper. But as Ross said above, cutting the joints is the fun part of the project. I don't want to rush through that (or be removed from the process).

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12 hours ago, BillyJack said:

In cabinet shops we cut all parts to length. The ends of all rails are milled and then all lengths are ran...

I did notice your bragging about having shapers on Lumberjocks..Happy for ya... 

Jack, nice post edit after the fact there.  

I'm Not sure where I bragged about having a shaper over there You seem to be reading into things that aren't there, and for some reason irritated by me.  The guy asked a question about running production with router vs a shaper. I did say bigger is better in shapers though and ill stand by that statement all day long.   But that was a different thread, and this is about shapers in the home shop..

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9 hours ago, BillyJack said:

Except we don't run door parts in that order with weaver shapers...cabinet shops run doors through an overhead sander a whole set at a time..the doors are taken to edge sander and then to be profiled on the edge. After that there given a quick once over with an ROS and then hinged and installed. Some shops will drill for handles before installed and some do it after there applied to the cabinets..

Except that video *is* of a cabinet shop and they are not running weaver shapers. I think if you look Karl is running 3 or 4 SAC t120s and a older scmi t160.

 

 

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3 hours ago, wtnhighlander said:

I hope @Jar944 has read enough of these forums that most of us 'hobbyists' spend far more time sorting through the lumber stack to find matching color and grain, than actually cutting the joints. :lol:

Shapers are great for what they are great at, but even if you gave me one, I wouldn't be able to use it. No space for another machine. A bandsaw would come first, if there was.

I can understand the space issue. No matter how little or how much space is available it somehow gets filled up with stuff. I can also understand someone who is just woodworking as a leisure hobby isn't interested in getting it done as fast as possible. 

 

2 hours ago, SawDustB said:

Same here. There's a pretty good list of machines I don't have (that I want) that would come before a shaper. I'm in part of a single car garage, which isn't uncommon for hobbyists. I want (but can't really fit) all of these:

1. Band saw

2. Drum Sander

3. Jointer

4. Cabinet saw

5. CNC

6. Spindle sander

7. Bigger cyclone dust collector

8. Miter saw station

9. Pantorouter

If I had all those and space left over, I might be interested in the shaper. But as Ross said above, cutting the joints is the fun part of the project. I don't want to rush through that (or be removed from the process).

Understandable, we all have a tool priority list. My original point (that has been lost along the way) was that a shaper is a useful shop tool that can fit well in a home shop (and doesn't have to be all that expensive compared to a router) 

 

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I wonder if i got all my equipment set up ahead of time if i could run a door in 15 min. I'd bet i could. By FAR the longest time component of my projects is the hours I spend on grain selection, and then trying to utilize every last bit of lumber.

I think it's an interesting conversation. I don't know anything about shapers so I enjoy learning about them. I never thought about the coping directions and blow out issues. I think the 1 time I did doors that way I cut the length did the ends and then ran the long profile. Then after becoming frustrated with how much I disliked the process vowed to never do a raised panel door again. I just think M&T door corners are the way to build them. Far stronger so I can run smaller rails and stiles. I also like the clean likes of the mission / arts & crafts style.

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