Cabinet Platform - Home Depot Burrill 2x4?

[rinconmike]

Hi. We have been working on a cubby system for the local High School band room to store the instruments as part of an Eagle Scout Project (I had a separate post on urethane).  We now want to build a platform to raise the cabinets (act as a toe kick).  The cubbies are made out of 3/4" Baltic Birch Plywood. We have six of these with varying cubbies. Four of them have overall dimensions of are 27" wide, 29" deep, and 72" high and the last two are 78" high (photos below).

The platform will be a framed that is 27" deep and provide a box for each cabinet (outside of the side 2x4 to line up with outside of side of cabinet).  Due to the size and being able to get into the room, we are doing it in two pieces 81" long each).  Each will be framed for 3 cabinets (81" x 27" deep).  

We already did one frame out of No 2 Doug Fir I got from a local lumber yard instead of HD or Lowes.  Although I went through the stack and picked what I though were good pieces, a couple days later before we started, the pieces warped a little.  I ran it through the table saw to try and trim it down, but that did not go so well (longer pieces pulled off the fence) and some pieces are around 1mm to 1.5mm" off.  I put together and some of the top of the pieces have a small lip (.5 to 1 mm).  Below are some photos.  We did a mock up and this works.  Although there are some lips between the 2x4s, there is apparent wobble so we can use what we did, but we want to try again and see if we can do better with better 2x4s and not run through a table saw this time.  We will also do better on getting the tops of the frames flush and do any shimming at the bottom (shimming in photo is because we did the mockup on my sloping garage floor).

Now the question on Home Depot has 2x4 noted as Burrill 2x4.  I went through the stack and found straight ones.  These seem better than the No 2 Doug Fir I got form the local lumber yard or what I found at Lowes looking through their stacks. 

The Burrill Fir I think is a White Fir or a Hem Fir and seems lighter than the Doug Fir.

For this use, is this Burrill Fir good for this project.  I figured we can build the second platform and see if we do better and if not better, use the first one.  However, I do not want to use the Burrill Fir from HD if it is not good for this application.

Also, once all installed, we will add a piece of 3/4" Baltic Birch across the front of the 2x4 toe kick.

thanks,

Mike

Edit:

Here is a link to the Burrill Wood

2 in. x 4 in. x 96 in. Premium Burrill Fir Stud

https://www.homedepot.com/p/2-in-x-4-in-x-96-in-Premium-Burrill-Fir-Stud-1000020053/206262176

 

 

 

 

[Coop]

Mike, I’m assuming you don’t have a jointer? 

Another option to the 2’s would to build your frames from a decent quality 3/4” ply and provide blocking in the corners and cross support like you show but maybe more frequently. 

 

[rinconmike]

Thanks.  I do not have a jointer.  I did not want to do with the 3/4" since I figured I would have issues with ripping the strips with the table saw or track saw and having those be off.   

thanks,

Mike

[Coop]

I am not familiar with the fir you mentioned. Trying to rip or clean up an uneven edge, especially one that long, IMO, is a loosing battle. I would choose the straightest 2’s you can find shim the base if necessary, especially if you plan on trimming out the front of the toe kick. Yo7 guys did a great job on the cabinets. 

[rinconmike]

Thanks.  I think it is a white fir or a hem fir.  On the Home Depot Website some posts note a hem fir.  I need to look tomorrow to see i there are any stamps. I think it is softer than the Doug fir, but wondering if ok to use under the weight or if i am better off just using what we built and not bother doing again.  There is no wobble when we mocked it up.  Since there are lips between the 2x, I am assuming the bottom of the cabinet does not sit flat on all the tops of the 2x4.  The way we did these, the sides and back of the cabinets site on the bottom.  The back is also 3/4" BB.

On either the one we did or the new one I am thinking of adding blocking in the back corner so I can screw the bottom of each cabinet to it as well.  We are also going to screw the cabinets together with some 1.25" screws in a couple spots.

We have been working on this since March.  Remove the old beat up cabinets today and set to install the new ones this upcoming Wednesday.

Here is another shot of the platform with the 6 cabinets on it.  When we install at the school, there will be little shimming.  Floor is pretty level.  We tried it out today but instead of cabinets had 6 big scouts standing on it (my two kids are around 6'-4").

[wtnhighlander]

I feel confident that any standard 2x construction material will be sufficiently strong in this application. Wood movement will be your problem, as construction lumber is not dried the same way that "furniture grade" lumber is.  I recently saw John Heisz demonstrate a simple way to use your tablesaw as a jointer to correct bowing or cupping on any board up to the capacity of the saw blade:

https://youtu.be/J08ZQjOBbmQ

[rinconmike]

I spoke to a carpenter that builds cabinets.  He can help us out and to the platform quickly.  This is what he recommends.

Yellow are my notes.  He said the cabinets are supported by just the front and back.  The pieces going from front to back they usually keep a hair below the front and back.  These are just to hold the frame together and provide nailers to screw the cabinet to the platform if we want to do that, but not needed to screw it.

Any thoughts on this?

thanks,

Mike

Custom Platform.pdf

[BillyJack]

Im confused. I've done lockers for high schools, colleges, etc. We didn't add toe boards after the  fact but we're built in the cabinets as we go. 

I'm not reading  the problem here...

 

Looks like your adding ge toes boards after the fact. Your installation shoukd be the same with commercial cabinets. Set the  toe boards level best you can then apple the cabinets above...

 

You dont need a jointer for this...last one we did was  $100,000 for St Joseph.....

[rinconmike]

We did not build it in the cabinets but want to get it off the ground since this is on VCT and they mop.

We are amateurs and not pro's at this.  The scouts and I learned a lot along the way (been working on it since February), but by the time we realized we wanted to get it off the ground, too late and did not want to change course figuring we could do a platform. 

Here is another concept.  

 

[BillyJack]

Rincon Mike has already shown you a cabinet frame that will work....

I take it there not putting rubber base around these?

[rinconmike]

I posted the sketches (I am rinconmike).  Two different sketches we are discussing.

Cabinets are against the wall and we are looking at adding the rubber base just along the front toe kick.

[BillyJack]

Sorry. Got a tornado of things going on. The first pictures were fine of the base.

[rinconmike]

My concern with the one we did out of 2x4s (initial post photos) is that the boards are not flush and will be as shimming pain.  So was looking at doing it out of plywood.  A carpenter (cabinet maker) said he can do these in a couple hours.  These are the sketches from today.  

He said the cabinets are supported by just the front and back pieces that span the 81".  The pieces going from front to back they usually keep a hair below the top of front and back, but they do sit on the ground.  I just wanted to post here to see if that sounds correct that these would be basically supported by a 3/4" plywood in the front and the back.  If we go this route, I am not sure if we will screw down or not. He said with the weight of these, probably not needed.

 

[Chestnut]

I don't see any issues with that. The base doesn't really need to be anything special.

I agree it probably doesn't need to be fastened to the bottom of the cabinets but why not. it won't hurt anything but it might prevent something from shifting if someone runs into the cabinets with something heavy, like a pallet jack or a cart full of folding tables or something.

[rinconmike]

thanks.  We are going to use the one we built shown i the first post.  If things do not go well, we will just pull the cabinets off and then go to plan B.  

Thanks all for reading and comments.

[BillyJack]

The front/ back and length can be the same height. In commercial we set the toe boards, level and lock them in place.the cabinets simple set on top. The cabinets will screw to the wall. Nothings going anywhere...

[curlyoak]

Sometimes I build a separate base. But most of the time the outside bulkheads Are cut on the bottom front corners. dados for the bottom shelf. I have one t shaped support in the center made of 3/4 ply , screwed and glued.   center bulkheads fit into dados on the bottom. This project required shelf standards on the uppers and bottom left. They were inset in dados.

 

[rinconmike]

Well we put the platform in.  Had a tough time figuring it out.  Part of the issue is the 2x4 are a little warped and with no load, they pop up so I had my wife and son stand on them.  There also happens to be a small bump in the floor at the point the two platforms connect (circle in one of the photos).  In the end, on the right side, looks like we need to shim 1/4".  Still need to work on it. 

I really do not have these tow platforms working as one continuous platform.  The photo with the clamps is where I connected the two,  I  put a temp board in the front and back to align and then screwed the two cross pieces together.  However, the joint still moves a little since the the floor needs to be shimmed on the right.  Hindsight I should have put a splice piece on the inside of the front and back to connect together and put shorter cross pieces.  I might still have to do that.  Also, some of the shimming might now be the floor, but my 2x4s are off a little.

We are going to continue and give this a try.  If it does not look good after the cabinets are up, we will pull the cabinets off and try again.

[rinconmike]

To screw then cabinets together, I planed on using 1.25" flathead wood screws.  Would it be better to use a cabinet screw line this?  Connection points will be a couple inches below a shelf.  I figured one in the back and one a 2 inches in from the front.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GRK-Fasteners-8-x-1-1-4-in-Star-Drive-Low-Profile-Washer-Head-Drive-Style-Cabinet-Wood-Screw-100-Pack-114069/203556408

thanks,

Mike

[Chestnut]

That should work great. In an area like you have picture the cabinets are going to work out great!

I'd use a regular flathead screw and counter sink the head so it doesn't stick out. The cabinet screw will sit proud of the surface and wouldn't be something that i'd like. Cabinet screws are meant to hang a cabinet to a wall which you aren't doing. I would also use flathead screws to attach the cabinet to the wall.

[BillyJack]

The washer head screws is what you want.. we worked a lot with melamine and the regular screws chew it up. 

[BillyJack]

I can have that base in in 10 minutes. Start high and work to your lowest point. 

 

I think your like most new cabinet makers. Way over thinking this...

[BillyJack]

Level and screw the back against the wall. Level best you can front to back. Put cabinets on. Shim up to cabinets to make solid. Walk away...

[curlyoak]

2 hours ago, BillyJack said:

I think your like most new cabinet makers. Way over thinking this...

Anything completely new I go real slow. second time is a snap. All first time different and challenging  techniques slow me down the first time. Next time is easy. I think it is human nature. 

[BillyJack]

I know I'm awful. I will take my time on electrical and electrical. Only get one chance...