Meatwad Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 I'm practicing building a nightstand and I've looked at several pictures to get some ideas. Here's one I kind of like. I'm trying to figure out how to fit the top and bottom aprons and it got me wondering if I should use a mortise and tenon and then I started wondering if you can actually do that from both directions with legs that are only about 1 inch square. Is there a good way to determine what's the minimum needed for strength? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wtnhighlander Posted November 22, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 There are a couple of ways to deal with tenons that would interfere inside the leg. The tenons can be mitered where they would intersect, or they can be "haunched", so that both tenons are full width at their base, but have the opposite corners notched out at the end so that the overlap inside the intersecting mortices. A third option for the top apron is to use a dovetail that slips in from the top of the leg. Since it doesn't rely on glue surface area for strength, it can be much shorter than a straight tenon. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatwad Posted November 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 Do I even needed M/T or is that overkill on something this small? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mick S Posted November 22, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 14 minutes ago, Meatwad said: Do I even needed M/T or is that overkill on something this small? What other joinery methods are you considering? M&T is definitely not overkill, it's the accepted method of construction for this type a piece. And as mentioned above, a dovetail on the top aprons would add even more mechanical strength. I don't know if you subscribe to Fine Woodworking or not, but Mike Pekovich wrote an excellent article on making a side table from a single board that is a great primer for this type of table. I use it as a project in my intro classes. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatwad Posted November 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 Other methods? Just plain old glue. I will check out Fine Woodworking. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mark J Posted November 22, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, Meatwad said: Other methods? Just plain old glue. I will check out Fine Woodworking. Thanks! Do you mean a simple butt joint? If so that will never work. A butt joint offers very little surface for glue to bond, and worse than that, one of the surfaces is end grain and wood glues perform very poorly on end grain. The whole art of joinery is to produce connections that have a lot of surface area that has long grain wood fibers mating with other long grain wood fibers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 M&T is never overkill. Dowels or pocket screws would also work if you don’t want to go M&T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 @Meatwad, you mention legs at 1" square, but the supplied image appears beefier than that. You also mention "practicing" the build. Are you building the actual piece, or just a scale model? If you are just making a model to visualize, then short-cuts like butt joints should get you by, but as @Mark J suggested, they are a recipe for failure in the actual piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatwad Posted November 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, wtnhighlander said: @Meatwad, you mention legs at 1" square, but the supplied image appears beefier than that. You also mention "practicing" the build. Are you building the actual piece, or just a scale model? If you are just making a model to visualize, then short-cuts like butt joints should get you by, but as @Mark J suggested, they are a recipe for failure in the actual piece. I was mainly practicing cutting mortises and tenons. I am not good at tenons yet. I've got some scrap pine left over I was trying out some ideas for a nightstand. I don't have any plans yet. I just wanted to see what I would need to do. I wasn't talking about butt joints. All the plans I've seen so far use pocket screws and I don't really want to do that. I've watched several different methods on cutting MTs. I can cut mortises ok but tenons is where I fail. I am trying to saw them by hand but I find it is very easy for me to get my angle off and ruin the thing. Any suggestions? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 Sorry, I misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 @Meatwad, if tenons are difficult, how about using loose tenons instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Meatwad said: I've watched several different methods on cutting MTs. I can cut mortises ok but tenons is where I fail. I am trying to saw them by hand but I find it is very easy for me to get my angle off and ruin the thing. Any suggestions? Cut them at the table saw with a dado stack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted November 22, 2020 Report Share Posted November 22, 2020 That project depends on how far you want an education in woodworking. You can make it simple as JohnG suggested or challenge yourself. If you really just want to get it done and have the table I would just suggest pockets. A pocket is fine with additional bracing in unseem areas... Dont take on too much of a complicated piece if your not ready. Sometimes it will frustrate you and you won't enjoy the hobby 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Meatwad said: I was mainly practicing cutting mortises and tenons. I am not good at tenons yet. I've got some scrap pine left over I was trying out some ideas for a nightstand. I don't have any plans yet. I just wanted to see what I would need to do. I wasn't talking about butt joints. All the plans I've seen so far use pocket screws and I don't really want to do that. I've watched several different methods on cutting MTs. I can cut mortises ok but tenons is where I fail. I am trying to saw them by hand but I find it is very easy for me to get my angle off and ruin the thing. Any suggestions? Do you have a table saw? A bandsaw? A skill saw? Cutting tenons can be done easy with any one of those tools. It does take patience though. And always cut them slightly bigger in all directions, and tune them down with either a shoulder plane, a Stanley #78 or a flat wood rasp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatwad Posted November 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 I've got a table saw, jointer, and trim router. I was actually wondering about trying with the jointer and making repeated passes. But I could try the dado blade on my table saw, too. I've never used one before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted November 23, 2020 Report Share Posted November 23, 2020 If you aren't strictly a hand tool guy, you might want to look at the book Marc Spagnollo wrote, "Essential Joinery". I think that has a lot of useful information. His earlier book, "Hybrid Woodworking" is good, too. Marc probably has some videos at "The Woodwhisperer" site. You can certainly make a tenon with either a table saw or a router, though a trim router might be small for the task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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