HF DC piped through attic w| 1 main drop


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Hello, I'm trying to put together a simple and effective DC system on a tight budget. I don't want to have dedicated drops for tools, but just one drop that will attach to each tool as I am using them.

I am planning on using the 4" Dust Right system for hoses and quick disconnects. My shop tools that I need dust collection for are:  3hp TS, 6" jointer, 13" planer, sanders, bandsaw etc.

I picked up an almost new 2hp HF DC for $50. My plan is to run a main 5" line through the attic to the center of the garage ceiling. There I will have the 5x4x4 wye that will be attached to the 4" dust right hose on one side and the 1.5" dust right hose on the other. The 1.5" might get left off when not in use to avoid restricting the airflow.... Main pipe through the attic minus elbows is about 23 feet.
I will mount the DC on the wall at ceiling height to cut down on additional elbows. The way I have figured I will only need 4 long sweep elbows or double 45's The DC exhaust will exit the building and enter a 5" Super Dust Deputy and fill a trash can. No filter figured, and yes I know I will be sucking out my shop air.
 
My question is as small and simple as I have tried to keep everything. Does this look like it would work with the HF DC,  5" pipe, 5" Deputy, and the stock impeller? 
 
Obviously the other option is to upgrade the impeller and change to 6" pipe with the 6" Deputy but for only using one tool at time I don't know if its worth it.
 

bench5.pdf

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The 1.5" hose isn't going to be able to suck up a fly let along do significant dust collection. You are far better off trying to find a shop vac.

The way you have the cyclone set up will cause a large amount of turbulence leading into the cyclone which will reduce it's seperation efficency and likely cause a greater suction loss. If you are venting outside it's unlikely the separation efficiency matters. It still seems better to have the cyclone and bin prior to the motor and vent the exhaust outside. If you lowered the main line and ran it directly into the cyclone and then blower and vented outside you'd reduce 3 90 degree bends, which is quite significant as 1 5" bend is the equivalent of like 40 LF of pipe.

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Separating ahead of the impeller has the added benefit of cutting down the number of lost screws, nails, etc..  that knock around inside the blower and cause damage. Drew is right about the 1.5" hose, DCs need flow to function, and most can generate the static pressure to draw much through that small opening. 

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I understand running the cyclone before impeller is the norm. However I don't have room in my shop for the bin and cyclone. Running them outside makes the pipe layout less complicated in my building.  I'm not worried about sucking up nails, I have two shop vacs and 3 brooms for that.

I also know that the smaller vac hose won't be very efficient but... I see them on overarm table saw blade guards and sanding stations all the time. (going to 4"+ pipe) Are you telling me they don't work at all? I was thinking when using the smaller hose I would have both sides of the wye open?

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1 hour ago, Fugs said:

I also know that the smaller vac hose won't be very efficient but... I see them on overarm table saw blade guards and sanding stations all the time. (going to 4"+ pipe) Are you telling me they don't work at all? I was thinking when using the smaller hose I would have both sides of the wye open?

 The over arm dust collectors are only picking up minimal material from the top of the blade while the majority of the DC is still happening at the bottom of the saw on a 4" hose.  

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I can tell you that my 1.5 hp DC, vented outside, can pull planer shaving from the floor through a 4" hose pretty well. But when I plug in a 2" vac hose, it struggles to lift fine sawdust from the surface. Connecting the 4" hose to my saw, I still need at least the factory throat plate to pass enough air for any collection at all. Zero clearance plates kill the DC altogether.

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21 minutes ago, wtnhighlander said:

 I still need at least the factory throat plate to pass enough air for any collection at all. Zero clearance plates kill the DC altogether.

I didn’t realize it until you mentioned it but it’s true on my part. DC at my ts has definitely decreased as I look back and was about the time I installed the zci. I even went as far as duct taping gaps in my collection area to increase collection to no avail. 

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11 hours ago, Fugs said:

I see them on overarm table saw blade guards and sanding stations all the time. (going to 4"+ pipe) Are you telling me they don't work at all?

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. I had the HF DC and ran a 2.5" tube to a miter saw and it didn't' do anything except plug. I wouldn't worry about nails either the HF DC isn't strong enough to lift them anyway. Chunks of wood are a better possibility. You could get wood chunks stuck ahead of the impeller often enough to cause frustration. So if you proceed make sure the tubing is easily disassembled to remove chunks of wood, shavings, dentures etc.

I only see what you can show us so it's impossible to make a judgement but the way it's designed the HF DC is likely going to struggle to provide good flow.

This is roughly what you are looking at with your design. The HF DC can barley generate 25.64" of suction so your flow will be very low.

CFM.thumb.jpg.5c7d3ded4a4ccd1f23ed1c2411798aea.jpg

If you removed changed the orientation to remove all those extra 90s extended the solid drop to the ground to shorten your flex hose to a few feet you could get down to 14" which would make the system function.

 

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1 hour ago, Chestnut said:

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. I had the HF DC and ran a 2.5" tube to a miter saw and it didn't' do anything except plug.

Drew, that's a great spreadsheet. Where did you get it? I'd like to plug in my numbers and play with it a little bit.

I have the HF DC and connect a 4" hose to a 4>2" adapter at some of the tools and it seems to work fine. Others I use a shop vac.

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1 hour ago, fcschoenthal said:

Drew, that's a great spreadsheet. Where did you get it? I'd like to plug in my numbers and play with it a little bit.

I have the HF DC and connect a 4" hose to a 4>2" adapter at some of the tools and it seems to work fine. Others I use a shop vac.

http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/staticcalc.xls

The length of hose prior to the 2" line makes a large difference, if you had a short section of 4" and then a short section of 2" it could work.

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FWIW in my shop I have a 3HP Oneida Dust Gorilla and have two 2" hoses off of it. One is downstream about 15' from the cyclone with a 15' hose, the other is about 40' downstream from the collector with a 25' hose. I have heard many times over the years that they should not work based on the science and I while I agree they do not suck as well as a larger drop does or as well as a shop vac, I would never live without them. They suck more then enough to pick up saw dust and with these two strategically placed hoses I can reach every nook and cranny in my shop without ever pulling out a vacuum. Just my experience.

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I should have specified that a 2" hose will flow roughly 3x more air than a 1.5" hose. 2.5" hoses will flow considerably more than a 2" hose. The area is the square of the radius so even small changes have large impacts.

I'm not saying it won't work, it just won't work well. A 3 HP unit with minimal losses in the main duct work is an entirely different situation as well. 2-3"WC of suction is a large difference in the DC world.

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  • 4 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Mark J said:

Glad to see the mirror ball is properly installed--very important :), but I'm not following why the flex hose is on the shelf in the last picture.

I work best with a mirror ball spinning... The shelf is storage for the hose when it's not in use because it comes down in the center of the garage.

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