What Should I Get for the Shop?


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44 minutes ago, TomInNC said:

Wow. I assume you don't work for Oneida. Haha.

No, but I did sell them (via dealer) for many years. They have excellent service and support, IMO. Things like I mentioned above can happen with any vendor. How they respond is what's most important.

48 minutes ago, Coop said:

Ross, have you any experience with the Harvey? Reason for asking, I just watched their short animated video and it looks like there is no primary collection canister and everything goes thru the impeller?

It looks to me like they use what I'm going to call a linear impeller after the initial impeller. Jet is now selling a similar add-on for DIY systems. It does have a primary collector bin and a fines collection as well. 

Coop, watch the video of William Douglas Co. following the animated video. It shows the impeller/linear impeller configuration. 

I'm looking hard at the big brother to the G-700. The noise level is a game changer.

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@Coop, no personal experience, I was just impressed by Harvey's demo and reviews.

@TomInNC, venting outside eliminates the filter back pressure, so air flows more freely. Using a decent chip separator, the exhaust shouldn't contain visible dust, but will have 'microfines', the stuff that is really harmful inside a closed shop.

The down side to venting us that it removes air from inside, which must be replaced. This makes heating and cooling the shop space more problematic. 

To illustrate, I use a 1.5hp blower and Thein baffle separator in my 12x16 'tiny shop'. Venting outside, the pressure drop will pull the door open unless I have the dead bolt latched, so I always open a window at least 2" when using the DC. As you can imagine, I use the DC in very short bursts through the winter...

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After YouTube binging on DC videos, I am really leaning towards the mini gorilla. Given the size of my space, I see some real advantages of being able to wheel the unit around from machine to machine. Since this is my first real dust collection system, I also expect that I will eventually be replacing this as I figure out what works best for me. Definitely going to hold off on installing piping for now.

The gorilla comes in a 110v and a 220v. I already have an electrician coming to add another 220v outlet for the jointer. Would there be a real advantage in having the 220v version of the mini gorilla (which would require adding another 220v circuit)? Depending on how the electrician's pricing comes back, we may just add a subpanel to the garage to future proof for stuff like more tools and electric vehicle chargers. 

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If you're assuming you'll be upgrading you might as well get an extra 220 line installed. I can't give advice on what dust collector to get but did want to point out that Laguna is raising their prices June 1 and Grizzly just did. I would assume more companies will be raising their prices soon so it might be smart to buy now instead of waiting.

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Get the 120 volt version (110 for those that insist on outdated nomenclature). If you think you'll upgrade at any point in the future it'll be far easier to sell the 120 version than the 240 version.

Make sure you have a dedicated 20 amp circuit for it though. a 1.5 hp motor draws enough that a 15 amp circuit can be overloaded and tripped. FLA is 16A and it has a 1.15 serviuce factor so it could possibly draw 18 amps under heavy load.

That said the motor is likely the same between the 2 models and you can probably rewire it for 240 or 120 depending on what you choose. The $50 up charge is likely because they order all 120v motors and Oneida rewires it as it's cheaper than ordering 2 different motors.

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One possible reason to go with 240 volts is that twice the voltage = 1/2 the current, for the same horsepower. So the 18 amps Drew mentioned at 120 volts would be under ten at 240 volts. This makes a big difference if wire runs are long, and can drop voltage or heat up at higher currents.

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So I just happened to check Craigslist, and the PJ-882HH is on there in "like new" condition with the mobile base. Listed for $3200. That is pretty steep for a used unit, isn't it? I verified that the Powermatic warranty does not transfer between owners. The price for a new unit (not available until July) is 3195 for the jointer plus 250 for the stand.

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3 hours ago, Chestnut said:

Get the 120 volt version (110 for those that insist on outdated nomenclature). If you think you'll upgrade at any point in the future it'll be far easier to sell the 120 version than the 240 version.

Make sure you have a dedicated 20 amp circuit for it though. a 1.5 hp motor draws enough that a 15 amp circuit can be overloaded and tripped. FLA is 16A and it has a 1.15 serviuce factor so it could possibly draw 18 amps under heavy load.

That said the motor is likely the same between the 2 models and you can probably rewire it for 240 or 120 depending on what you choose. The $50 up charge is likely because they order all 120v motors and Oneida rewires it as it's cheaper than ordering 2 different motors.

Good point on greater resale options for the 120. I didn't think about that at all.

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2 hours ago, TomInNC said:

So I just happened to check Craigslist, and the PJ-882HH is on there in "like new" condition with the mobile base. Listed for $3200. That is pretty steep for a used unit, isn't it? I verified that the Powermatic warranty does not transfer between owners. The price for a new unit (not available until July) is 3195 for the jointer plus 250 for the stand.

Personally i wouldn't pay new price for a used unit but with pandemic availability who knows what the market is like. Powermatic does do 10% sales quite often so I definitely wouldn't pay more than $2,880. Could tell him the mobile base isn't worth more than $75 which is what you could get a non-powermatic base for that is probably better anyway with 4 swivel casters.

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1 hour ago, wtnhighlander said:

@TomInNC, don't think you are off the hook. Now we want to see what you make with your new toys! :D

Haha. Will do. 

Looks like the jointer is going to be at least a few weeks out. The dealer is checking with PM, but it could be as late as October before they get the unit. Ugh.  

The next furniture project is going to be the frame and panel outdoor barbecue/trash cart that I mentioned in a different thread. I have been getting by with getting the boards s2s by hands, then running through a planer. This gives me boards so far that have been "square enough" for my joinery, which has been limited to MT and half laps (ignoring my initial pocket screw period). 

I don't really want to wait until the fall to start my BBQ cart, so if the jointer is delayed, I will probably just try to build it using the hand plane/lunchbox approach again. Are there any precision issues that I should watch out for with frame and panel (which I have never attempted) that might make waiting for the jointer to arrive before starting the project worth it? I think I have about a half dozen cutting boards I promised to make that could probably keep me busy while I wait.

For what it's worth, I have been trying to follow the hybrid approach, cutting joints oversized and then dialing them in with hand tools.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, TomInNC said:

For what it's worth, I have been trying to follow the hybrid approach, cutting joints oversized and then dialing them in with hand tools.

I’ve been doing that for years but never as an approach but due to screwups on my part.

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I think the biggest gain you will get from the jointer is speed. The hand plane and/or sled method with the thickness planer will make the parts just as precisely flat.

In fact, I typically don't even do the hand plane part, unless there is a noticable twist to remove. Skip planing in shallow passes has been working well for me, even without a sled. The disclaimer is that I like to work with thick stock, which is stiff enough to be pulled through the planer without the pressure rollers forcing it to flex much. If I went down to 3/4 or less, I might not get away with it.

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Covid strikes again...

After talking with our electrician, apparently the cost of having the subpanel has skyrocketed since we first discussed the project this time last year. I'm trying to figure out a temporary solution to add the jointer and DC without running a bunch of wire. There are currently 4 circuits that have outlets in the garage: a 240v that is currently dedicated to the table saw; a 120v GFCI that is tied to all of my outdoor outlets; a 120v that controls the garage lights; and a 120v that controls the garage door opener with outlets mounted in the ceiling). 

The DC (mini gorilla) comes in either 120 or 240. Since I have no idea how long this issue with wire pricing will last, I would really like to be able to potentially run the DC with the 120v tools, so the DC should be on a different circuit from the 120v tools. At this point I am inclined to run some kind of long extension cord from the garage door outlets down to the DC. Then I could run an extension cord to the jointer from the existing 240v outlet and use the GFCI for the 120v tools. Does this sound reasonable? Any suggestions on how to best drape an extension cord from the ceiling? 

The only problem I could potentially see running into is that someone would try to open the garage door while the DC was running. 

 

 

 

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I don't know if overall your idea is a good one; there are folks on the forum with more electrical knowledge than I have.  But I will share some thoughts. 

Temporary workshops have a way of becoming permanent (mine is 6 years old) so the wisest course of action may just be to put in the panel or at least schedule a re-think in 6 months.  

Plan the ceiling cord runs with the garage door in the up position to make sure they don't interfere with each other.  (DAMHIK)

I used simple plastic coated "question mark" hooks from the hardware store screwed into the ceiling joists to run cords, air hose and corrugate DC ducts.  

Make your own extension cords to the length needed and I suugest at least one guage heavier than the machine/house wiring.  

You should be able to share the 240V line for two machines as long as only one is plugged in at a time.

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How much has it “skyrocketed?” Ask the electrician for the breakdown of parts vs labor. Around here, contractors at times add quite a premium to their labor when they get booked up. You can verify the cost of the panel and rough cost of wire. 

Get a quote from another electrician to see if they are in the same ballpark. We saw more than 5x difference between two contractors for the same job recently. 

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I would suggest powering the DC from whatever point you can access that is nearest the panel, and use an oversized extension cord as previously mentioned. If your lighting circuit has outlets as well, you might find it is the most lightly loaded.

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3 hours ago, JohnG said:

How much has it “skyrocketed?” Ask the electrician for the breakdown of parts vs labor. Around here, contractors at times add quite a premium to their labor when they get booked up. You can verify the cost of the panel and rough cost of wire. 

Get a quote from another electrician to see if they are in the same ballpark. We saw more than 5x difference between two contractors for the same job recently. 

The estimate more than doubled. This guy has been very honest in the past, so I am inclined to believe him that this is really a wiring cost issue. I am going to get some other estimates regardless. 

 

What part of NC are you in? I am close to Charlotte.

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