What Should I Get for the Shop?

[JohnG]

On 6/1/2021 at 10:05 AM, TomInNC said:

Ok. I'm guessing our supply prices are pretty similar.

FWIW, in the fall I had a 120amp subpanel put in my carport for an EV charger and future shop build. The main panel is in our basement on the opposite side of the house. Straight line it’s about 100’ away, but there was about 20’ vertical so they probably ran 150’-175’ to route it cleanly. They ran a circuit to the EV charger and wired that in and added another 120v outlet near the subpanel. 
 

Main wire, 120amp breaker, conduit, subpanel, 60amp 240v circuit, 20amp 120v circuit with weatherproof box, misc parts, and labor was around $2k total. 

[TomInNC]

2 hours ago, JohnG said:

FWIW, in the fall I had a 120amp subpanel put in my carport for an EV charger and future shop build. The main panel is in our basement on the opposite side of the house. Straight line it’s about 100’ away, but there was about 20’ vertical so they probably ran 150’-175’ to route it cleanly. They ran a circuit to the EV charger and wired that in and added another 120v outlet near the subpanel. 
 

Main wire, 120amp breaker, conduit, subpanel, 60amp 240v circuit, 20amp 120v circuit with weatherproof box, misc parts, and labor was around $2k total. 

Thanks. My run should involve a lot less wire. The location of the subpanel in the garage is almost directly above the main panel in the basement, so that should be, at most, a 30 foot run. From the subpanel we are going to run up the wall, across the ceiling, and then drop down. That might be 100 feet when you add it all up. From the subpanel we are adding 2 120v and 2 240v. 

Our normal electrician initially told me that this should cost about $1600. Then when he wrote a quote up, it suddenly became $4500. He's always impressed me as a pretty honest guy, so I assumed he was just trying to price himself out of the job. I have 4 guys coming out this week to give quotes. When I described the job on the phone to one of them, he also said likely 1600-1800. 

 

[TomInNC]

I got the DC yesterday, and while I was walking around the store, I started looking at the oscillating spindle sanders. I will be adding a bandsaw to the mix in the fall, which means sanding curves. I have only added significant curves to 2 projects so far, and I sanded them with those little sanding drums that you put on the end of a drill. Not ideal, and results were questionable. 

If I am going to be sanding down to cut lines to clean up bandsaw cuts, is it worth investing in a spindle sander? If so, any recommendations? The store I was at had both the Jet benchtop and cabinet/standalone spindle sanders. The lower price of the benchtop model is appealing, but I don't want that sitting on my bench all the time. Once you add a table to hold the benchtop model, it is going to take up as much space as the cabinet model. 

Right now I just use a Dewalt ROS for power sanding. 

[Mark J]

If you are thinking of an oscillating spindle sander you should definitely look at the Rigid oscillating belt & spindle sander, or one on the many copies (e.g. Triton).  You are essentially getting two machines in one.  

[wtnhighlander]

+1 to the Rigid sander suggestion. The belt can deal with all but the tightest of curves, and with greater surface area, lasts much longer than spindle sleeves. Save the spindle for holes.

[Coop]

I too have the Ridgid oscillating spindle sander but not the one with the belt. I have a PC belt/disc sander. These two are mounted on a flip stand and only takes up the area of one tool. Several of us on here have made them. 

[JohnG]

+1 for Ridgid belt/spindle sander.

However, I do get a lot of nonconsensual manicures when using it on smaller pieces. 

[Chestnut]

I don't really use my spindle sander that much if at all. I use a spokes have to clean curves and then a flexible sanding strip because I'm not very good with the spoke shave. Card scrapers are also very good at curves with larger radii as well.  I always find i need to address the surface from the spindle sander with something anyway as the surface it leaves is quite rough.

I must be doing something wrong because a lot of people use spindel sanders (and that rigid thing) a lot. It might also be my aversion for sanders and preference to hand tools.

[legenddc]

Or you're better at cutting to the line on the bandsaw. I'm sure at times using hand tools would be much more efficient then using the spindle sander.

[TomInNC]

4 hours ago, Chestnut said:

I don't really use my spindle sander that much if at all. I use a spokes have to clean curves and then a flexible sanding strip because I'm not very good with the spoke shave. Card scrapers are also very good at curves with larger radii as well.  I always find i need to address the surface from the spindle sander with something anyway as the surface it leaves is quite rough.

I must be doing something wrong because a lot of people use spindel sanders (and that rigid thing) a lot. It might also be my aversion for sanders and preference to hand tools.

I also prefer smoothing with handtools to sanding. When the bandsaw comes in, I wanted to make some bandsaw boxes with my kids, and for most of those bandsaw box designs, I don't think it would be possible to use a spokeshave or a card scraper. That was one of the reasons I was thinking about getting the spindle sander down the line. 

[wtnhighlander]

I'll confess that my belt / spindle sander is more of a shaping tool, than a smoothing tool.

[Chestnut]

16 hours ago, TomInNC said:

When the bandsaw comes in, I wanted to make some bandsaw boxes with my kids, and for most of those bandsaw box designs

Oh those are impossible to do with out a spindle sander. I also use my spindle sander for making reindeer.

I shouldn't have made it seem like i was advising against a spindle sander. More or less adding to the discussion. They are inexpensive and have enough uses, they should be in the shop.

[TomInNC]

45 minutes ago, Chestnut said:

Oh those are impossible to do with out a spindle sander. I also use my spindle sander for making reindeer.

I shouldn't have made it seem like i was advising against a spindle sander. More or less adding to the discussion. They are inexpensive and have enough uses, they should be in the shop.

I see reindeer mentioned a lot of woodworking sites. Are these actual reindeer? Or a reference to something else?

[Tpt life]

13 minutes ago, TomInNC said:

I see reindeer mentioned a lot of woodworking sites. Are these actual reindeer? Or a reference to something else?

Google bandsaw reindeer or search that term in the search bar of this site. 

[Chestnut]

16 minutes ago, TomInNC said:

I see reindeer mentioned a lot of woodworking sites. Are these actual reindeer? Or a reference to something else?

These things. Kinda look like Reindeer for Christmas decorations. I glue together scrap blocks to make them and can usually give away every one I've made. Haven't meet a person yet that doesn't love them other than my wife. (she only doesn't like them because i made like 30 this past year and littered our house with them.

[TomInNC]

Ah, Ok. Now I get the reindeer thing. Seems like a good way to get rid of some scrap.

[legenddc]

If I was doing a ton of Reindeer, bandsaw boxes, spurtles, etc. I could see having multiple spindle sanders. Keep a belt on one and a spindle on another.

[Mark J]

That would be deluxe, but switching from belt to spindle is pretty quick.

@TomInNC, your research might have turned up something different, but the bandsaw boxes I've seen don't get much (if any) sanding on the inside.  

[Bmac]

In regards to the spindle sander, it's a real nice tool to have, esp for small stuff. With bandsaw boxes you really can't sand the inside as the fit is predicated on the slightly irregular cut lines matching up for gluing. I guess you can always sand the inside surfaces you are not gluing, but I've found that unnecessary, flocking works great there. Sanding the outside of the boxes with the spindle sander is possible.

But for me cleaning up bandsaw cuts mean rasps, rasps, and rasps. Spokeshaves are also nice but you need to watch the grain direction. Rasps have no such worry and they can be aggressive or fine. Fairing a curve with a rasp allows for a lot of control. The length of the rasp can be used to your advantage. With a spindle sander you only have a single point of contact. If you have a dip it can easily just follow that irregularity. The width of the rasp gives you more surface area, but the are times you can position the rasp at a skewed angle or even length wise on the curve to really increase the surface area, this really helps fairing convex radii. For concave radii you need to rely more on just the width of the rasp. 

 

[wtnhighlander]

@Bmac makes a good point, but I would also point out that the Rigid sander (and its copies) include a slot in the table for miter gauge-style appliances. That opens up a world of fixtures and template sanding that makes all sorts of shapes go quickly.

[TomInNC]

22 hours ago, Bmac said:

In regards to the spindle sander, it's a real nice tool to have, esp for small stuff. With bandsaw boxes you really can't sand the inside as the fit is predicated on the slightly irregular cut lines matching up for gluing. I guess you can always sand the inside surfaces you are not gluing, but I've found that unnecessary, flocking works great there. Sanding the outside of the boxes with the spindle sander is possible.

But for me cleaning up bandsaw cuts mean rasps, rasps, and rasps. Spokeshaves are also nice but you need to watch the grain direction. Rasps have no such worry and they can be aggressive or fine. Fairing a curve with a rasp allows for a lot of control. The length of the rasp can be used to your advantage. With a spindle sander you only have a single point of contact. If you have a dip it can easily just follow that irregularity. The width of the rasp gives you more surface area, but the are times you can position the rasp at a skewed angle or even length wise on the curve to really increase the surface area, this really helps fairing convex radii. For concave radii you need to rely more on just the width of the rasp. 

 

Do you sand after using your rasp? I have some cheap ones that I picked up at woodcraft. I use then occasionally, but the surface that they leave is really rough. 

[Mark J]

Lacking some other more productive amusement, I was looking at the "copies".  I found units sold under Triton, Grizzly,Wen & Harbor Freight brands.  The copies appear outwardly identical to each other, but different from the Rigid.  

The belts are reversed with the spindle end being to the right on the copies. 

The dust collection port is on the left of the copies and on the back of the Rigid.

The copies don't have a miter slot.  

By the way, I too have found the miter slot to be useful.  Besides for sliding, it can be clamped in place like a fence, but at a known angle.  Think sanding a hexagon.

[Bmac]

On 6/9/2021 at 10:22 AM, TomInNC said:

Do you sand after using your rasp? I have some cheap ones that I picked up at woodcraft. I use then occasionally, but the surface that they leave is really rough. 

Absolutely sanding is required, rasps do not leave a smooth surface. But what rasps do well is shape and blend the surface, taking the irregularities out of the surface so sanding can can result in a smooth surface.

Cheap rasps will work, but the nice ones are a lot better. They leave a relatively smooth surface, esp with the less coarse rasps. I never thought I'd ever use rasps as much as I do now, as I use them in projects I just keep finding new ways to use them. 

[pkinneb]

13 hours ago, Bmac said:

Absolutely sanding is required, rasps do not leave a smooth surface. But what rasps do well is shape and blend the surface, taking the irregularities out of the surface so sanding can can result in a smooth surface.

Cheap rasps will work, but the nice ones are a lot better. They leave a relatively smooth surface, esp with the less coarse rasps. I never thought I'd ever use rasps as much as I do now, as I used them in projects I just keep finding new ways to use them. 

I agree I started with two on my sculpted bar stools and I think I am up to 8 not including rifflers now

[Mick S]

On 6/8/2021 at 6:26 AM, TomInNC said:

I see reindeer mentioned a lot of woodworking sites. Are these actual reindeer? Or a reference to something else?

Everyone knows where there are reindeer Santa must not be far behind. And Santa brings new toys for the shop!

On 6/8/2021 at 7:12 AM, legenddc said:

If I was doing a ton of Reindeer, bandsaw boxes, spurtles, etc. I could see having multiple spindle sanders. Keep a belt on one and a spindle on another.

I had a 15 year old Ridgid belt/spindle that developed some play in the belt mechanism. I got a new one and kept the old as a spindle-only sander and use the new one as a belt-only.