Coop Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 I’ll be darned if I can figure out how some of you add a circle or arrow to a pic, so hopefully, a verbal description will get the point across. In this pic, on the shelf below the top, it appears that the shelf extends the full width of the cabinet and the left and right vertical dividers butt into it, top and bottom. It could be the other way around but the question still holds. How are the vertical dividers and the shelf joined together at this intersection without the use of the Domino? Are mortise and tenons used, located at alternating points? It seems that if stopped dadoes are used, the material in between would be awfully thin. I hope this makes sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 My first guess on commodity casework is biscuits. Second guess is dowels. I would probably use dados for the panels with a sliding dovetails for the show pieces like a traditional dust panel in a chest of drawers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 I think @gee-dub is right, but even though the web site claims 'solid wood' construction, there could still be housing dadoes concealed by edge banding / face frame. I would hate to spend that much on a piece that didn't use dadoes or sliding dovetails. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 I agree that it's probably biscuits. That's an application that they were made for and work very well. Cheap, fast and strong. Biscuits don't get much love these days, but if I'm doing stuff with sheet goods, I'll reach for the Lamello every time. It's just a fantastically good tool for this. If I'm building out of solid wood, then it's traditional joinery. No biscuits or pocket screws for if no other reason than 'just because'. I enjoy the craft of doing traditional joinery and the gentle peace of mind it gives me. Even though the Domino is a great piece of kit, I'll probably never own one because I love chopping mortices and fine tuning tenons. So satisfying. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 Normally that site is good at explaining the construction details where it even mentions how dividers are installed but it depends on the furniture maker. I've used that site for inspiration many times, they have good looking furniture hosted there. It's a crap shoot if it's biscuits, stopped dados, or stopped sliding dovetail, in my opinion. Though with how thin the horizontal divider looks my guess is sliding dovetail is out. As a side note, I would be willing to bet that the legs are just glued on to the side of the main carcass and that there isn't any joinery there. I really like that as an idea from a construction standpoint it simplifies the glue up a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 On 4/26/2022 at 6:30 AM, drzaius said: I agree that it's probably biscuits. That's an application that they were made for and work very well. Cheap, fast and strong. Just to clarify my statement. I was guessing at most expected per my experience. I was not implying that biscuits or other mass produced methods were wrong for the production environment that uses them. I am a one man shop and generally use other methods. That piece is priced as a craft made piece and I would expect natural woods and traditional joinery. Of course I can expect anything l like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 56 minutes ago, gee-dub said: Just to clarify my statement. I was guessing at most expected per my experience. I was not implying that biscuits or other mass produced methods were wrong for the production environment that uses them. I am a one man shop and generally use other methods. That piece is priced as a craft made piece and I would expect natural woods and traditional joinery. Of course I can expect anything l like. Yes, given the price point if it's solid wood, it probably is not biscuits (I hope). I think a lot of us hobby level woodworkers like to higher quality joinery that a mass producer would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chestnut Posted April 26, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 56 minutes ago, gee-dub said: That piece is priced as a craft made piece and I would expect natural woods and traditional joinery. You would think that, I've watched some of the sneak peaks that Marc has offered on the Derryl Peart pieces in the guild and there is a surprising amount of biscuits used in his work. I'd probably put his pieces a 1/4 step above what is offered on the Vermont site. I don't think there is anything wrong with biscuits. Most often they are used for registration and alignment. I also feel that they do add limited strength in certain applications and can be utilized to make heirloom pieces if one so chooses. While the journey is more important than the destination for us hobby types, most end users want a sturdy piece and aren't going to X-ray the piece to see if the joinery was hand cut or machine cut let alone a biscuit or domino. As an aside, i use some of those "shortcut" devices and techniques often, mostly because the journey for me is designing the furniture and being able to put the room together the way i had envisioned it. Some of the journey that others love, i don't enjoy. This is a big reason why I don't work from plans very often. Working from a plan removes the most fun aspect of the project for me. Designing the project, figuring out the hurdles and problems, and finding solutions. If i had no interest in the end product I'd be very easy for me to stop once I figured out a solution to the problem and move on to the next piece. Probably a rambling tangent but just throwing it out there because the journey is different for every person. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 I am one of those lucky people that trips over their words more than others. I was trying to say there's nothing wrong with biscuits, dominoes or dowels so I hope no one thought I was being snobbish. I have a dresser design that I have made quite a few of. There are pocket holes joining a support piece to a lower stretcher that is thin for aesthetic reasons. It is probably fine without the additional brace but I feel better with it there. I was just exaggerating that particle board, dowels, runs of glue would not be what I would expect on a $5k piece. I'm not saying the piece shown has those characteristics . . . oh there I go talking too much again . . . It's All Good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted April 26, 2022 Report Share Posted April 26, 2022 1 hour ago, gee-dub said: I am one of those lucky people that trips over their words more than others. I was trying to say there's nothing wrong with biscuits, dominoes or dowels so I hope no one thought I was being snobbish. I have a dresser design that I have made quite a few of. There are pocket holes joining a support piece to a lower stretcher that is thin for aesthetic reasons. It is probably fine without the additional brace but I feel better with it there. I was just exaggerating that particle board, dowels, runs of glue would not be what I would expect on a $5k piece. I'm not saying the piece shown has those characteristics . . . oh there I go talking too much again . . . It's All Good I think most everyone here knows you're not the type to dis the tools and methods that others use 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 27, 2022 Report Share Posted April 27, 2022 John at ibuildit.ca on YT recently posted a way to make solid, cross-grain biscuits that should provide some strength, like a properly-formed spline: Makes me a bit more interested in biscuits. But mostly when slathered in butter and honey.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted April 27, 2022 Report Share Posted April 27, 2022 He's a clever guy, but I swear, he probably makes he own toilet paper. Is it really worth all that work to save a few pennies on biscuits? They are already dirt cheap. He made 50 in half an hour. So if we're talking Canadian prices, he was paying himself exactly $5/hr, which is less than 1/3 minimum wage I do occasionally make them when I need to have very precise alignment. As manufactured, biscuits are a bit of a sloppy fit, even though they do swell from the glue. It works much better for exact alignment if they're tight to start with. When you're trying to butt joint 2 pieces of veneered plywood, there isn't much veneer to work with to even out the 2 pieces. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post legenddc Posted April 27, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 27, 2022 I'm curious how they joined that as well. Maybe stopped dados for the bottom and dowels or biscuits for the top partitions? It seems like the top dividers wouldn't hold as much weight. How they attach the back is a bit surprising to me. I think most hobbyists would overbuild/complicate that. On 4/26/2022 at 5:20 PM, gee-dub said: I am one of those lucky people that trips over their words more than others. I was trying to say there's nothing wrong with biscuits, dominoes or dowels so I hope no one thought I was being snobbish. I have a dresser design that I have made quite a few of. There are pocket holes joining a support piece to a lower stretcher that is thin for aesthetic reasons. It is probably fine without the additional brace but I feel better with it there. I was just exaggerating that particle board, dowels, runs of glue would not be what I would expect on a $5k piece. I'm not saying the piece shown has those characteristics . . . oh there I go talking too much again . . . It's All Good I thought we weren't allowed to use pocket holes. Doesn't everything have to be mortise and tenon since pocket holes are cheating? Unless you have a Domino and then you can cheat without the consequences. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JohnG Posted April 27, 2022 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 27, 2022 On 4/27/2022 at 2:51 PM, legenddc said: I thought we weren't allowed to use pocket holes. Doesn't everything have to be mortise and tenon since pocket holes are cheating? Unless you have a Domino and then you can cheat without the consequences. The domino itself actually only costs $100. The other $900+ is for the lifetime cheat card. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legenddc Posted April 28, 2022 Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 Just wanted to add, I have no issues with the Domino or anyone who has/uses it. Frankly I wish I had it so I could crank out projects faster. One day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted April 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 Honest opinions please, as it’s hard to hurt my feelings and I take suggestions well. And the more, the better. The center board is some ambrosia maple with a little tiger stripe that I bought from Spanky a couple of years ago. I was thinking of making the outside carcass of the above first pic, from it and using some nice walnut for the top. Undecided about the legs or the drawer fronts or door frames. The left board is African mahogany that I picked up today to see what it looked like as I have never used it before. Wife has already ruled out cherry as it was too red. Is the ambrosia maple too wild and crazy for a piece this big? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 28, 2022 Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 Pics, @Coop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted April 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 Oh crap! Thanks. i might add, that the difference in color on each piece is due to a slight app of ARS on each. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted April 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 Also, my wife’s first choice for the entire build is the butternut, shown in the center panel of this tray. Still trying to source it locally. Plus the walnut top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legenddc Posted April 28, 2022 Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 Quickly putting this up there as an idea for the different woods: https://www.finewoodworking.com/2019/07/24/build-a-contemporary-sideboard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 28, 2022 Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 @Coop, my opinion is that the ambrosia might look best if reserved for the drawer fronts, and door panels if you choose to not do glass. The remainder of the case in plain maple, with the walnut top, should look quite nice. Check out BobKloes.com. He sells a lot of highly figured lumber, and has posted several pieces made entirely of such material. While the design and craftsmanship is impeccable, I feel like so much figure is just too busy to look at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted April 28, 2022 Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 On 4/26/2022 at 7:46 PM, wtnhighlander said: John at ibuildit.ca on YT recently posted a way to make solid, cross-grain biscuits that should provide some strength, like a properly-formed spline: Makes me a bit more interested in biscuits. But mostly when slathered in butter and honey.... Or a good homemade sausage gravy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted April 28, 2022 Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 I agree with the above coop some times it may be exciting to throw a lot in one piece of furniture but it can become too much. Too many species mixed in an odd manner can look cool at first but then lose it's charm quickly. I think you can use the species like others have mentioned as a panel on a door, or drawer front but be careful. I have a lot of faith that you'll pull it off, the projects you share always turn out great. 50 minutes ago, wtnhighlander said: Check out BobKloes.com. He sells a lot of highly figured lumber, and has posted several pieces made entirely of such material. While the design and craftsmanship is impeccable, I feel like so much figure is just too busy to look at. Tommy Mac has been gulty of that as well. https://tommymac.us/furniture-piece/cherry-bedset/ I also have been guilty to over use figured wood. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted April 28, 2022 Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 Thanks Drew I've wondered where Tommy went to. I liked most of his shows on PBS I've used several tricks I gleaned from him like the L fence and I know I could remember more if given enough time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted April 28, 2022 Report Share Posted April 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Chestnut said: Tommy Mac has been gulty of that as well. https://tommymac.us/furniture-piece/cherry-bedset/ For sure. Even worse was the slant top desk he built out of curly cherry several years ago. It almost hurt the eyes to look at because it's just so busy. Highly figured wood is a case where less is more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.