Porch Handrailing

[drzaius]

1 hour ago, Tom King said:

It went pretty quickly to get them sanded, ready for paint, this morning.

I didn't get this old and in fair shape by breathing sanding dust.

 

Especially PT dust

[curlyoak]

Tom, I like that dust hood. What brand? Thanks

[Tom King]

Allegro.   I don't know anything about this particular company that sells them.  Google brought up a long list, and this was at the top.

https://christianfab.com/maintenance-free-tyvek-hood-cf-sar-assembly-w-suspension-and-lp-flow-adapter-w-obac-fitting/?gclid=CjwKCAjwk_WVBhBZEiwAUHQCmd_hzMwFfd8lEfUoGMRUZDKSoP1ycsn_w872cOYwggiXzKaSfDYo1BoC4pgQAvD_BwE

I have two different rigs.  This one uses a Lowes long blue shop vac hose that doesn't get used for anything else, and a small shop vac, or 120v air conditioner.

I also have a more expensive, Bullard pump and hoses that are especially made for supplied air.  If I'm going to use one to amount to anything, that's the one I use.  This was in a storage container on top of the good one, and I only needed it for 20 minutes this morning, so this is the one I used.  Nose and sinuses completely clear at lunch.

For that Allegro rig in the link, once you have that with the belt, that keeps it from blowing off your head, you can buy replacements of just the Tyvek hood part without the hose for about half that price.

I don't breathe dust, and don't trust a respirator.  

I was able to get all the parts primed before lunch, so that's probably it for today.

 

[Tom King]

The problem I'm having now is that the balusters are 8 thousandths over 3/4", so no drill bit works perfectly.  I ordered some 3/4" copper plumbing fitting brushes to open the holes up a little bit with.  I played with one I had, and it worked, but that brush was about worn out.

I don't mind a little bit of an interference fit, but this is too much for this many.  I got a little bit of paint in some holes, and that didn't help.  If they were exactly 3/4", they would work fine.

A 49/64" twist bit I had almost worked, but was ever slightly too big.

edited to add:   I found some reground reamers on ebay.  One .758 and another one .756 for 19.99 each, so I ordered them.  New ones are about 120 bucks.  Hopefully, that will be the easy fix.

[Tom King]

I put the finish coats of paint on them this morning.  The reamers are supposed to get here Tuesday, so they should go up this week.  I sprayed them with the airless rig.

I made a list of which was which on paper, since I figured the numbers would get painted over.  They did.

 

 

[BillyJack]

I'm having to clean and repair some rot on my newel posts. Cheaper to repair than buh new...

[Tom King]

This porch never had any railings on it.  The edge is barely less than 3' off the ground.  We didn't want to rent it like that.

[wtnhighlander]

Tom, is there a perticular paint youlike over PT wood?

[Tom King]

If it's dry and clean, I've had no trouble with Zinsser exterior oil based, or water based primer sticking to it.  I used water based on these because it's what I had.  I haven't used it long enough to be real comfortable with it yet, but it seems to be pretty good.  It's harder to sand than oil based.  I only had this gallon because they didn't have oil based when I bought this for the fascia on the rental house.

On top of that, it's whatever the current top of the line SW paint is.  I've never had to redo any done that way, and have been using it for several decades now.

This was Duration.  We bought an unopened 5 gallon bucket off local CL for a hundred bucks some years ago.  I had SW reshake it for me when I first needed to use some.  After it was used out of the first time, I put the rest in empty 1 gallon paint cans.  This was the last of that, and I had to use water to push the last of it through the rig to have enough this morning, but I did have enough.

The only thing I've bought for this job was the balusters, a piece of aluminum bar, and a few tools, but no job is worth doing unless you get to buy more tools.   Everything else was leftovers.

I just went over and put them back in the shop.  They look good.   The paint is dry, but still a little bit tender.  They should be well cured by the time the reamers get here this week.

[BillyJack]

Duration is good paint...

[Tom King]

The reamers came today.  I couldn't have planned this any better.  They work better than I expected them to.

The balusters are .758 inches.  You can pound them into a 3/4" hole, but it buggers up the entrance surrounding where the baluster goes into the hole, and I'm not sure they wouldn't split the rail over time.

I ordered  .756 and  .758 machinist reamers off ebay.  They had been reground to these sizes.  New, one is  $120.  The ones off ebay were 19.99 each with free shipping.

 

The .756 is an ever so slight interference fit, but the balusters are easily tapped in.  I'm going to use those for the bottom rails, and a few of the top holes over the supports under the bottom, to help hold the top rails down.

 

I'll use the .758 reamer for the rest of the holes under the top rails, so they won't be so hard to get down onto the balusters.  A baluster will slide right into a hole reamed to .758, but it still looks like a tight fit.

 

I'm setting all of them 3/4" into the rails.  The one in the picture had been tapped in, but not turned yet.

 

The reamers just came today right after lunch.  I did one rail, but it's too hot in that shop to work now.  I hope to get some up tomorrow.  If I don't tap the reamer all the way down, and push down on it while I turn it a quarter turn, all that's needed, it leaves a clean edge on the paint.

 

[Tom King]

During the time I had for working this morning, I had to work on the pastures or the Dandelions were going to get away from me.  Unfortunately, the sprayer is on the mower of the tractor that doesn't have air conditioning.

Maybe back on this tomorrow.

[Tom King]

I just put one section up this morning.  I figured I'd learn something on the first one.  I did.  With the interference fit of the bottom rail, I couldn't pull the balusters up to get them started in the top holes.  I managed, but it took a while.

First try tomorrow, I'm going to wax the bottoms going in the holes to see if that allows me to pull them up some.

I was worried they'd look too 2022 on a 1974 house, but the house is so ugly anyway I don't think anyone will be offended.

I feel like it would be hard for me to do any better.  In person, they seem to block the view even less than in these pictures.  That was the main consideration.

 

[Coop]

That looks darn nice Tom! All of that hard work and extra detail sure paid off. 

[Tom King]

I quit working hard a long time ago.

[curlyoak]

On 7/7/2022 at 12:02 PM, Tom King said:

was worried they'd look too 2022 on a 1974 house, but the house is so ugly anyway I don't think anyone will be offended.

I see nothing ugly or offensive. 

I do see a beautiful water front house set in a very pleasant environment!  The appearance demonstrates craftsmanship!

This view of the house is inviting...

[Tom King]

The three couples that were renting it left Monday.  They want it for another couple of weeks next year.  They left it so clean that it doesn't need any cleaning for the next people.  They even washed all the sheets, folded them, and put everything back in perfect order in the closet where Pam keeps all the linens.  They all seemed really sad when they left, that they had to go back home and go back to work.

[wtnhighlander]

Tom, both porch and view look great!

I have similar black tube ballusters in my deck railings, but they came with studs / plugs that screw to onto the rails, and fit into the tube ends. I like the look of yours better, but do you think the lower rail "pockets" will possibly collect water?

[drzaius]

I like that railing a lot. And it is so nice to see those screws properly clocked.

Tom, did you assemble the rails and spindles before securing to the posts? With my railing I assembled everything in the shop and then just lowered the assembled section onto the tenons on the posts. It was super easy and I'd use the same method again, but maybe secure the rail to the tenon with a screw rather than construction adhesive.

[Tom King]

These thin 1-15/16" tall, 10'+ and 11'+ long rails are too flexible up and down to use the screws.  They are all mortised 3/4" into the rails.  I wanted them as thin as possible to open as much view up as I could.  This was as thin as I thought I should run them, and still maintain enough stiffness-just guesswork.

I screwed the lower rail to the brackets on the posts, stuck the balusters in, and then worried the top rail down on the balusters.  I thought I might be able to slide them up into the holes a little, which would have made it much easier,  but the interference fit was too tight to move them by hand.  I'm going to try waxing some tomorrow.  They slide into the .758 holes relatively easily, but need some persuasion from a rubber mallet to get into the .756 holes.  The top rails are tight enough fitting that you have to put a particular end in first, or it won't go in place due to the irregularities of the posts.

Over the two 1" aluminum rod supports under the bottom, I reamed three of the holes in the top handrail the .756, hoping it would help secure the top rail.  That seems to have worked.  

Most of the rails all developed a little bow between the time I milled them to size and left them sitting as long as I did.  I put the four with the largest bows on the bottom to help hold them down.  That has worked so far, too.

If I had reamed all the top holes undersized, it would have been almost impossible to get it down.  I was really lucky to find these two reamers used on ebay.  

The porch posts have all sorts of irregularities-twisted, out of plumb a little, etc.   It would have scratched everything up if I had assembled the section in the shop, and put them in place like that.  When I used to mortise handrail sections into posts, I'd assemble the sections first, and put them in place as we set the posts.  I didn't want to move these.  The existing paint job was pretty good, and I didn't want to have to redo it.

[Tom King]

Somewhere in here I forgot to add that I used this in a cordless drill to deburr and taper the ends of the balusters to get them into the holes without damaging the wood.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09T8TQ49G?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

[drzaius]

2 hours ago, Tom King said:

The porch posts have all sorts of irregularities-twisted, out of plumb a little, etc.   It would have scratched everything up if I had assembled the section in the shop, and put them in place like that.  When I used to mortise handrail sections into posts, I'd assemble the sections first, and put them in place as we set the posts.  I didn't want to move these.  The existing paint job was pretty good, and I didn't want to have to redo it.

I did the railing right at the same time as the posts, so I got them in place while everything was still nice and straight. Each roughly 7' section did want to sag, so I have 2 support blocks between the bottom rail and deck to hold everything level and flat.

[Mark J]

21 hours ago, Tom King said:

I quit working hard a long time ago.

!  I can't remember you ever posting about taking a day off. 

[Tom King]

There's a difference between working, and working hard.

The wax worked!!!   What took me at least 45 minutes, and a lot of aggravation yesterday, took three minutes on my rolling stool this morning.  I could slide 8 to 10 of them up to start in the upper holes, and tap the top rail down on them until it was just clear of the next ones down the line.  I took plenty of time both yesterday and today not to scratch the paint.

One problem I ran into was that the floor has a crown on it on this end, so I had to take the support spacers underneath out, and shorten them.  I just picked up scraps off the ground from the mortising to support it back up until I could sight it straight, and then marked the rods to cut.

I still think it's an ugly house though.

No air moving today, and humidity at max from rain last night, so I'm sticking to not working hard, and done for the day.

No paper or computer bits were wasted doing any drawing for this job.

 

 

[Tom King]

I forgot to answer the question about if I'm worried about the lower holes holding water.  I'm really not.  That porch has a big overhang, and two huge Pin Oaks right in front of it.  I doubt those rails will have solid rainwater on them more than a couple of times a year.

In any case, I'm not worried about them.  They are installed to be easy to put up, and take down if any replacements are needed.

I'll increase my stockpile of drying treated lumber whenever we get to the place that I can get out more.  It will take a lot less time to make a replacement part than these have taken to start with. 

It will be interesting to see how long they last, but the bottoms of those White Oak posts, and the treated bases they're sitting on seem to be in pretty good shape, and they're direct contact to the floor.

I wouldn't use this design on an open deck.