Dice boxes, trays, and displays

[BonPacific]

I started trying to write an update in the bench thread, but I ended up with a lot more and I expect this will be a long-running project/exploration so a dedicated thread felt more in order. Hopefully there's something useful for other folks here, I know dice boxes aren't exactly common fare but maybe some ideas here could be used in a jewelry box.

Goals

The point of all this (aside from having fun) is to figure out a handful of relatively standardized products that I could give as gifts to my D&D friends or add to my Etsy store (where I sell dice). Ideally these will be things I can either batch out every once in awhile or just here and there to use up some of the scrap wood I've got piling up on the shelves. I also need some display stands I can use for product photography, especially for my lighted dice.

Box Prototypes

These are my prototypes for a lidded dice box that will hold 7 individual dice, each between 15mm and 22mm face-to-face. A 1" hole fits them nicely without too much rattling around.

I'll rehash some of the bench post just for clarity.

The lower box is prototype #1, which I cut out just using the miter gauge to see how I liked this overall shape/feel. I cut the lip and lid on the router table, with some chisel cleanup (finally got a router place and it's been a joy).

Top box is prototype #2, made with a chunk of scrap butternut cut on my new hex sled. This one is a little smaller overall, but with deeper holes than the first prototype. 2-1/4" to a side, and I like that better for a box that someone might throw in their backpack. I wasn't very careful with the forstner bit so the holes have a ton of tearout. Not a dealbreaker for this piece, but something I'll need to keep in mind for the future. The bottom of each hole has a press-fit disc of leather cut out with a punch. I decided to try using magnets in the box and lid as something that should be faster to do with a jig than all the tuning needed for a lipped lid.

Here is the butternut box with magnets (2x 6mm magnets stacked) glued in with superglue for expediency, I'll probably use epoxy in the future for a stronger and more gap-filling bond. The magnets in the box are slightly recessed , and the ones in the lid will be slightly proud, to create a small mechanical registration. I initially tried to use a jig to align the holes in both the box and lid, but I ended up being off a bit since the lid is flipped and I couldn't quite get the holes perfectly centered. So I instead stacked an extra magnet on each for the box and clamped the lid on to leave an impression where I needed to drill. I filled the errant holes with epoxy when I glued in the magnets.

For the lid, in order to keep the polarity straight and make sure the magnets were just proud enough, I placed a piece of parchment paper between the two halves, put the magnets on, 15-minute epoxied the holes in the lid, and then set it down over the magnets before flipping and weighting down the whole sandwich. I made sure to mark all three pieces for alignment.

After the glue dried I was able to simply pop the pieces apart, and the silicone parchment paper doesn't stick to epoxy. A quick swipe with a chisel cleaned up the epoxy squeeze out. These magnets are way stronger than I expected, and I could definitely use smaller ones and probably a single in the box-side and still have plenty of holding power. I might even be able to get away with flush-trimming the lid on the router instead of resawing small hexagon blanks.

I forgot to take a picture after sanding and throwing a coat of oil on the piece.

Rolling tray

This is about as simple as it gets, but I threw together a simple mitered cherry frame and glued a sheet of leather to some 5mm plywood before placing it in a dado. I want to add some decorative miters, but my FTG blade seems to be lost in the mail so I'm waiting on that.

Modern rolling trays tend to be either larger or taller than I like, and take up a ton of space at the table. So I'll experiment with a few dimensions. I do think the 3/4" cherry here is too thick, even with a chamfer. I'll also experiment with matching hexagon rolling trays, but my practice pieces cut with a miter gauge have been a little too sloppy so I need to figure out something more repeatable, possibly cutting the angles flat on the miter saw before ripping the side pieces apart?

Wireless LED Dice Stand

This is where things get a little less woodworking. I cast a set of dice with wireless LEDs, which can be powered from a copper coil embedded in a nearby surface. I buy these sets from AliExpress, though you can now also get them sometimes from Adafruit. The lights come in a few colors and sizes, but the dice set I'll be testing with used the small white LEDs, and the coil is a 12V one (coils also come in 5V and 24V and seem to work fine with the majority of lights). So I wanted to make a display tray with the power-coil embedded in it.

So I started with another hexagon blank, and I needed to cut a recess for the coil and leather. Fortuitously the 12V coil I'm using here is just shy of 3", the largest forstner bit I have. I considered doing a surface-flush leather pad, but decided to recess the hole for this version.

<Scotty> "I can give yae pucker-factor 5 captain!" </Scotty>

Once I had the hole at a good depth, I routed out a channel for the electronics board and connecting wires to sit down inside, and a small hole for the wires to exit. I also cut a smaller circle of plasticard to match the thickness of the copper loop and keep the surface smooth without telegraphing anything through the leather. Everything is pinned down with hot glue, incase I want to disassemble/reuse any parts of this prototype later.

My soldering skills are, lets say, minimal. But I got a standard barrel plug wired in and heat-shrinked the pigtail. I immediately don't love it as a way to get power to this, so I ordered some magnetic pogo-pin adapters that I'll try in a future version. But I threw a couple coats of spray lacquer on it and dropped in a 3" leather disk (I used the 3" forstner to cut a circular template out of hardboard and cut it out with a hobby knife) and the whole thing looks pretty good. The lights are a bit brighter in person, and not in the harsh light of my assembly table. This dice set is straight from the mold, and I'm planning to matte-finish them to diffuse the LEDs a little better.

Two things I'd like to try next, a larger rolling tray with a coil so you can use the lighted dice more easily, and combining this embedded coil design into the lid of a box like above to serve as both a carrying case and a presentation stand.

 

[BonPacific]

@Chestnut Responding to your comment in the other thread.

Quote

That's a cool idea though for the standard set of D&D dice. My mind first went to the way more complicated version of making a hollow hexagon with a top and bottom and then cutting an insert to fit using the insert to hold the lid on. Kind of like a lined box. Hitting the hexagon miters might be harder though.

I also went there first, but was having too much trouble getting the hex miters to line up well. Also that creates more glue-up stages if I need to do each one in two halves.

[Chestnut]

Ahhh how much for those dice?

[wtnhighlander]

How deep do the rolling trays need to be? 

[Coop]

That’s darn cool!

[BonPacific]

On 1/18/2023 at 4:03 PM, wtnhighlander said:

How deep do the rolling trays need to be? 

Depends on how aggressively you are rolling. Generally anywhere between 1 and 3 inches interior depth. Larger ones tend to have lower sides. I like using this thin plywood and thicker leather because it absorbs a lot of the force and dice don't bounce around too much.

 

[Coop]

Tell us more about the dice. 

[BonPacific]

On 1/18/2023 at 3:37 PM, Chestnut said:

Ahhh how much for those dice?

For the LED ones? I haven't settled on a price yet, especially since they'll need to be paired with a powered tray or stand. My regular dice generally sell for between $35 and $50 a set depending on design and finish quality. The LED ones are about 30-50% more labor as they require pouring the resin in two stages to center the LED, plus a lot more material costs.

If you're interested in a set, DM me.

On 1/18/2023 at 5:31 PM, Coop said:

Tell us more about the dice. 

They're pressure cast from two-part resin using silicone molds I created off of a 3d-printed master that I also made. I use two piece cap-style molds and a variety of colorants and inclusions (resin pigments, inks, mica powders, dried flowers, 3d printed skulls, etc). My casting pot is a converted harbour freight paint spray pot. The resin I use needs 12-24 hours in the pressure pot (depending on temperature) before they can be safely demolded, and about 72 hours to full hardness.

I then trim any flashing, polish the rough castings, usually using Zona polishing paper, ink the numbers with acrylic paint, and do a final shine using a 3M polishing compound. I actually use a pottery wheel with a glass plate as a slow-speed wet grinder.

For the LED dice I do a two-part pour. Initially filling the molds about 1/3rd full, letting that mostly cure, then affixing the LED with a dab of superglue and filling the mold the rest of the way up. In this case I used a clear resin (with fine sparkles) for the first pour, and a semi-opaque pearlescent white for the second pour to cover up the black plastic and copper winding. I think in the future I'm going to paint the sides of the LED to make it blend in a little better.

Here's a clean shot of some completed (non-LED) dice and an example of how the molds look.

Most of my dice knowledge I learned from a YouTuber named Rybonator, and he has a bunch of good instructional content.

 

[Coop]

And after watching the video, “DAMN”! 
I’ve always thought of dice being 6 sided. That’s a heck of a deal! 
 

[wtnhighlander]

I was going to suggest a method for hollowing the trays with a router, which would eliminate the need for gluing up the miters, but it would be difficult to achieve more than 2" or so of depth.

[Chestnut]

[Chestnut]

I feel like there are some order of operations that gentleman could have taken to make his mold making a bit easier. Make the sides first then, vasoline and then, stick the dice down. He could also use the vasoline as a way to "seal" the tape so when making the cap it doesn't leak down along the tape. Or use some other form of something to seal the tape.

Cool vid awesome dice.

Also i still don't understand why people that do casting don't off gas the resin or silicone before pouring into the mold. Reducing the bubbles has to help prevent issues even considering the fact that he puts it in the pressure pot. It's like belt and suspenders. I suppose that takes time and if you are doing this to make money.....

[BonPacific]

On 1/19/2023 at 5:45 AM, Chestnut said:

I feel like there are some order of operations that gentleman could have taken to make his mold making a bit easier. Make the sides first then, vasoline and then, stick the dice down. He could also use the vasoline as a way to "seal" the tape so when making the cap it doesn't leak down along the tape. Or use some other form of something to seal the tape.

Cool vid awesome dice.

Also i still don't understand why people that do casting don't off gas the resin or silicone before pouring into the mold. Reducing the bubbles has to help prevent issues even considering the fact that he puts it in the pressure pot. It's like belt and suspenders. I suppose that takes time and if you are doing this to make money.....

Definitely not the most precise maker, and he's pretty open about that.

As for degassing before pouring resin, it actually makes very little difference if any. I used to vacuum degas the resin before pouring, and it had no detectable effect on the end product or success rate of the castings. This has been backed up by much more prolific makers in the community as well. Sometimes I'll still do it just as belt-and-suspenders if I have a really chunky inclusion like crumpled mylar that might trap air. Much bigger deal if you aren't using a pressure pot, and you definitely need to use the vac chamber when making the silicone molds.

[Chestnut]

I was just thinking if you get a big air bubble in a number it might not come out with the pressure pot. Seems like minimal effort to ensure success well at least on the mold making side. Then again I don't try and shoot for good enough I'd rather shoot for best possible in some situations, but I'm making things for me not for profit.

[BonPacific]

On 1/19/2023 at 8:33 AM, Chestnut said:

I was just thinking if you get a big air bubble in a number it might not come out with the pressure pot. Seems like minimal effort to ensure success well at least on the mold making side. Then again I don't try and shoot for good enough I'd rather shoot for best possible in some situations, but I'm making things for me not for profit.

Voids are always a risk, but the resin will also continue producing gas during the curing period. I use a resin with pretty low viscosity, and usually give it 5-10 minutes after the pour for any large bubbles to work their way to the surface where they're popped with a lighter (and this step needs to be done even when vacuuming the resin).