Need help regarding the quality and provenance of US walnut veneer for a construction project

[matel]

Hello everyone,

 

I’m in the process of building a new house, and we’ve decided, along with our interior architect, to use walnut veneer for the fittings. We’ve met several suppliers who have shown us walnut samples with a beautiful appearance and good quality.

 

However, when I asked to keep a sample, they gave me a completely different wood: a dull, gray walnut, unfinished, which resembles Juglans Nigra a bit. But once varnished, it becomes dark gray and remains just as dull, which is far from the look we initially liked.

 

They claim it’s US walnut of “cabinetmaking quality,” but when I ask for more details about its origin or scientific name, they stay vague and refuse to give me answers.

 

I’m a bit concerned, as this is an important project, and we’re not satisfied with the quality of the wood they’re providing so far.

 

Here are my questions:

 

• Does anyone here know the different varieties of US walnut and can help me understand what they are trying to sell me?

• How can I verify the quality of the walnut veneer they’re offering?

• Is it normal for US walnut to look so different from what we were initially shown?

• Do you have any advice or reliable contacts to guarantee the origin and quality of walnut veneer for a project of this scale?

 

Thank you in advance for your help and advice!

Matel

[wtnhighlander]

Greetings, @matel!

I claim no expertise, but to my knowledge there are only two recognized 'varieties' of North American walnut. The most common is tyipically referred to as 'black' walnut, and the less common is called 'claro' walnut.

See the first two entries for walnut in the wood database for a description.

[matel]

Greetings!

Thank you for the information! I understand that there are typically two recognized varieties of North American walnut: ‘black’ walnut and the less common ‘claro’ walnut. I’ll check the wood database for their descriptions.

I find it interesting because the walnut veneer I received doesn’t quite match what I’d expect from either variety. It’s a brown-grayish and dull color rather than the deep brown I anticipated. I’m posting a picture here to show the difference after varnishing. If anyone has experience with these types of walnut or insights into how they might differ in appearance and quality, I would love to hear your thoughts!

Thanks for your help!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AYp2OmRSkxVfOESYurswMFedDYZvAe-r/view?usp=share_link

[curlyoak]

In most cases solid walnut is used with the plywood veneer. Face frames, possibly door frames and drawer faces. The plywood is used for the sides and bottoms. You could use 1/4" ply for the door panels. I like solid door panels.

Where in the world are you?

Claro is more expensive and should be. Frequently it has lots of figure.

The type of varnish will affect the color. There is satin, semi gloss, and gloss. There is oil base and water base. Typically varnish has an amber color and influence. 

And walnut is a woodworker's best friend. A pleasure to work. And beautiful to look at. It sands to a high luster. But it ain't cheap...

What brand and type of varnish is on your sample? And how many coats?

[Mark J]

If you are looking for another veneer source, I can suggest certainlywood.com.

[matel]

On 9/26/2024 at 1:13 PM, curlyoak said:

In most cases solid walnut is used with the plywood veneer. Face frames, possibly door frames and drawer faces. The plywood is used for the sides and bottoms. You could use 1/4" ply for the door panels. I like solid door panels.

Where in the world are you?

Claro is more expensive and should be. Frequently it has lots of figure.

The type of varnish will affect the color. There is satin, semi gloss, and gloss. There is oil base and water base. Typically varnish has an amber color and influence. 

And walnut is a woodworker's best friend. A pleasure to work. And beautiful to look at. It sands to a high luster. But it ain't cheap...

What brand and type of varnish is on your sample? And how many coats?

Thank you for your reply! I’m in France. I’ve visited three different suppliers, and they all gave me samples with exactly the same color. The sample was varnished properly, and they did it on-site during my visit. The unfinished wood is much lighter in color, but they confirmed that this would be the final color once varnished.

 

If I want a darker shade, the typical walnut color, they say I would need to stain or paint it. The examples they showed me were rather disappointing. They are recommending I leave it as is to appreciate the grain of the wood, and they assure me it’s US walnut. However, we don’t like this color at all, which is why I’m researching more options, as we want a wood finish we truly enjoy.

 

We had originally engaged with one supplier who showed us a dark brown, golden walnut as an example, and we decided to work with them based on that. Unfortunately, they can no longer guarantee that color and can only offer what you see in the photo. We’re quite disappointed.

[curlyoak]

Go to a paint store with your sample. If they have no answer try another paint store...And get the brand and type of varnish.

 

Also try another cabinet maker or woodworker.

[curlyoak]

Pieces to a wall unit. The sides that cant be seen are made of 3/4" walnut plywood. All that is seen in this photo is solid walnut. The door panels are claro walnut. Book matched, meaning the panels have a glue joint down the middle. I took a 1" piece and resawed it to 1/4". This piece of claro is typical for gun stock.

[matel]

On 9/26/2024 at 3:37 PM, curlyoak said:

Pieces to a wall unit. The sides that cant be seen are made of 3/4" walnut plywood. All that is seen in this photo is solid walnut. The door panels are claro walnut. Book matched, meaning the panels have a glue joint down the middle. I took a 1" piece and resawed it to 1/4". This piece of claro is typical for gun stock.

Thank you for the advice, Curlyoak! I’ll definitely take my sample to a paint store. 

I contacted the company, they’re going to share the brand and type with me soon.

I’ll also reach out to another cabinet maker or woodworker for additional insights. The pictures you shared of your work look fantastic. It’s great to see such beautiful craftsmanship!

Thanks again for your help—I’ll keep you updated!

[wtnhighlander]

Another factor that may affect the final color is the thickness of the veneer. In my opinion, the richest , most lusterous walnut color is only achieved with a pentrating oil finish. Thin commercial veneers don't have much thickness to pentrate before hitting the adhesive, and may not appear the same next to solid wood with the same finish. Commercial cabinet makers typically use a spray finish that cures quickly and doesn't penetrate much, but (again, my opinion) produces a less inviting appearance.

[matel]

On 9/27/2024 at 2:07 AM, wtnhighlander said:

Another factor that may affect the final color is the thickness of the veneer. In my opinion, the richest , most lusterous walnut color is only achieved with a pentrating oil finish. Thin commercial veneers don't have much thickness to pentrate before hitting the adhesive, and may not appear the same next to solid wood with the same finish. Commercial cabinet makers typically use a spray finish that cures quickly and doesn't penetrate much, but (again, my opinion) produces a less inviting appearance.

Thank you for the insight, wtnhighlander! I hadn’t considered the impact of veneer thickness on the final color. It makes sense that a penetrating oil finish would bring out the richness of walnut. The walnut veneer I’m working with is 0.6mm thick, and the supplier wants to tint or varnish it themselves, but I’m thinking of asking them to go through a company that offers pre-finished wood veneer, though the cabinetmaker might charge more for that option. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!

[curlyoak]

I might like the interior pre finished. Not the rest...