How long should it take to flatten a hand plane?

[Beechwood Chip]

I got the new Jorgensen low angle block plane and tried to tune up the sole using 180 grit sandpaper stuck to a polished piece of granite.  I've put more than two hours into it and there's been a lot of progress, but the sole still isn't completely flat.  I made a lot more progress when I started to change the sandpaper every 15 minutes or so.

I'm beginning to think my sandpaper is just crap. I'm using "Dura-Gold Premium".

I'm not looking forward to moving up the grits when I finally finish with 180.

Any advice or words of encouragement?

[fcschoenthal]

At least it's a block plane and not a jointer. Unless it's really off, I would only make sure that the areas before and after the throat are flat and coplanar. For the small areas that a block plane is used, it won't matter as much. Also, make sure that you have the lever cap on and tight (with the blade retracted of course) when you're flattening.

[Beechwood Chip]

On 12/27/2024 at 1:13 PM, fcschoenthal said:

I would only make sure that the areas before and after the throat are flat and coplanar. For the small areas that a block plane is used, it won't matter as much. Also, make sure that you have the lever cap on and tight (with the blade retracted of course) when you're flattening.

Unfortunately, the area right behind the throat is the last little bit left.

How tight should the lever cap be?  I snugged it with a screwdriver, but should I really crank on it? 

Thanks for your help.

[Mark J]

The follow on grits should get easier. 

[fcschoenthal]

On 12/27/2024 at 12:45 PM, Beechwood Chip said:

How tight should the lever cap be?

It just needs to be the same amount as when you would use it. Especially on small planes, when you crank down the lever cap, there may be some bowing of the sole. I learned this the hard way, lapping without a blade, and had to almost start over again.

[wtnhighlander]

Use a chip brush to clear the swarf every dozen or so passes, and the grit might keep working longer.

For what it's worth, my opinion is that it SHOULD only take as long as the swipe of a debit card to get a flat plane! 

[Von]

I think this general question of "how perfect does X need to be" is one of the toughest to answer in woodworking. I've come to believe there is a lot of opinion and "what works for you" involved. I think you try it and see how it works. If it works well, great. If not, flatten some more (or return it).

FWIW, here is one YT "it doesn't matter that much" opinion (James Wright): https://youtu.be/j1YDaQdvI60?si=IXI4zM4mpKGrJHS5

 

 

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

On bench planes, the area at the toe and the front of the mouth are the most critical to have flat. A block plane is much smaller so this becomes a little less critical. 

I try to let the plane's performance dictate when I'm done. In other words, instead of chasing an ideal amount of flat, just try using it. If it's giving you good results, you're done. 

[Tpt life]

Make sure the plane is completely assembled and torqued. Castings can warp a little under tension. I doubt that will matter much in the area you are referencing, but there is not much worse than not realizing things move too late in the process. 

[Beechwood Chip]

OK, it sounds like my sandpaper is fine, my technique is fine, and sometimes it can take hours to flatten a plane's sole.  I was just concerned because in the plane tuning videos they don't indicate how long it takes, so I was thinking 15 minutes, a half an hour, something like that.

Do I need to get peel and stick sand paper?  Can I use water and surface tension to hold the paper to the glass or granite, or do I need to use some sort of glue?  What's a good source for sandpaper?

Thanks, everyone.

[wtnhighlander]

I've used the surface tension of water to adhere sandpaper to a granite stone, and it works pretty well, so long as you aren't putting a lot of force against it. If you want to really dig in, I'd go with peel & stick, or something like 3M 77 spray adhesive. FWIW, places like Autozone, O'Rielley's etc... usually have the wet/dry paper in finer grits (1000-3000).

[Tpt life]

After a deeper think…

I start on a medium rough diamond plate, only really using paper to remove deeper scratches, and then to work toward desired polish level. I’ve never spent more than ten minutes on any plane. I would guess your plane is a reject, or you started too fine at the outset. 

[Beechwood Chip]

On 12/28/2024 at 1:13 PM, Tpt life said:

I start on a medium rough diamond plate, only really using paper to remove deeper scratches, and then to work toward desired polish level. I’ve never spent more than ten minutes on any plane. I would guess your plane is a reject, or you started too fine at the outset. 

I did start with 240 grit, because that's what I had on hand.  Also, the cap may not have been tight when I started.  I switched to 180 grit when I realized that I wasn't making any progress, and I snugged up the cap a little after that.  Still, it's been about two hours at 180 grit since I tightened everything.

It's almost done, there's just a little bit behind the throat that's low.  I think I'll finish it up since it's close.

Lesson learned: tighten everything first, and if it takes more than 10 minutes then send the plane back for a replacement.

Thanks!

[Von]

I was doing some sharpening yesterday and it struck me I didn't really answer your question, which is that for large flat things like a plane sole, I expect it can be very slow, especially when the steel is harder.

I don't have experience with a plane sole but I do have a 1 1/2" chisel I bought which has a pillowed back (the opposite of what you want - the edges, including the blade are lower than the center). At first material removal was quick, but as high spot got bigger as I flattened it, things slowed way down because I had to remove more and more material to make progress. Now I've got it to where there is just 1/4-1/8" between the high spot and the front edge, but progress is sloooooow. I can go for an hour on my extra coarse diamond stone and barely see any progress. I've given up in general until I see the pillowing actually cause me a problem.

Wandering a bit, I was noticing yesterday that the chisels I recently got were a softer steel than I'm used to and sharpening them was very easy - I could create a visible burr in no time. I'll be curious to see how they keep the edge. I plan to pull them out for only finer work and keep my current cheap set to bash around day-to-day.

[gee-dub]

I once ran over a metal article with my shooting plane.   One of those things that can show up in lumber now and then unexpectedly.  It was some serious stuff and gouged the sole of my shooting plane .  I laid some sandpaper on a reference plate and with a known perpendicular fence resolved to correct the problem.  I worked it for way longer than I thought I should and wanted to stop leaving some of the damage behind.  A fellow woodworker urged me on and I followed through and corrected the problem.  Years later I have never been sorry I did.  It takes as long as it takes.  Decide what your end game is and go for that.

[fcschoenthal]

I once saw a video from Rob Cosman showing him squaring the sides and sole of planes that he reworks using a huge (I think 20-24") disk sander. With the table square to the disk, he just had to run it for a couple of seconds.

More Power! Arrh, arrh arrh! as Tim the Toolman used to say.

[Beechwood Chip]

On 12/30/2024 at 6:25 PM, fcschoenthal said:

I once saw a video from Rob Cosman showing him squaring the sides and sole of planes that he reworks using a huge (I think 20-24") disk sander. With the table square to the disk, he just had to run it for a couple of seconds.

Hmmm, I've got a Rigid Oscillating Belt Sander.  Not sure if it's perfectly flat. 

 

[wtnhighlander]

1 hour ago, Beechwood Chip said:

Hmmm, I've got a Rigid Oscillating Belt Sander.  Not sure if it's perfectly flat. 

 

Take off the belt and put a straightedge across the platten. If it looks decent, it would sure save some elbow grease.

Be sure to clean the area before AND after power sanding metal parts so future woodwork isn't contaminated with filings. DAMHIK.

[Mark J]

13 hours ago, Beechwood Chip said:

Hmmm, I've got a Rigid Oscillating Belt Sander.  Not sure if it's perfectly flat. 

I am jot rhe expert here, but I would only proceed cautiously with that idea.  The Rigid platten may be "flat", but it's not a reference surface.  And the platten has to be truly square to the table, which in turn needs to be flat, and close enough to the platten to support the side of the plane on.  Lot of room to make things worse.

[Von]

On 12/30/2024 at 7:50 PM, Beechwood Chip said:

Hmmm, I've got a Rigid Oscillating Belt Sander.  Not sure if it's perfectly flat. 

I tried the "scary sharp" (sandpaper on glass) system and also did try my belt sander on the chisel I mentioned before. I'm not sure how I would verify this, but I quit using sandpaper and the belt sander because I felt like the sandpaper was conforming to the existing pillowing I was trying to get of and may have actually been causing some pillowing.

In other words, at the edge of my chisel, I felt the sandpaper would flex enough to cup around the edge of the metal and not give me a hard 90. Similar to trying to sand an outside corner and getting a little easing where the sanding pad gives some off the edge of the wood. It feels like a stretch to say sandpaper has that much give it in, but I kinda think that is what I was seeing. I admit it could have been some other error like me just not keeping the tool flat, but since switching to diamond stones, I don't feel I have the same issue.

On a plane sole I guess that wouldn't really matter, but for the blade edge of a chisel it felt counterproductive though I also can't saw I saw actual problems. I may have just been "chasing thousandths..."

 

[fcschoenthal]

Sort of off the topic, but sort of not. I had problems flattening the backs of chisels and plane blades, just being able to hold on to them securely. I ended up using a Magswitch magnet on the top to push it back and forth. It allowed me to keep better even pressure and keep it flatter against the sandpaper or stone than trying it freehand.

[wtnhighlander]

To the original question on flattening the plane sole, it might pay to take a page from the knife maker's book of tricks. 

Buy a sanding belt (or rolled sanding strip) of appropriate grit, and glue it to a long, heavy block that has been planed flat. The longer you can make your strokes, the slower the paper will clog, and the lower your fatigue will be. The entire length of your work bench is a good target, even if you have to walk a step or two for each stroke.

[Beechwood Chip]

On 12/31/2024 at 11:18 PM, wtnhighlander said:

Buy a sanding belt (or rolled sanding strip) of appropriate grit, and glue it to a long, heavy block that has been planed flat.

Hmmm, I have a roll of 180 grit peel&stick sandpaper, and a wall mirror that's about 4 feet long.  Now that my work table is finally clear, I can use that as a long, dead slat sanding surface!

[fcschoenthal]

On 12/31/2024 at 10:27 PM, Beechwood Chip said:

Hmmm, I have a roll of 180 grit peel&stick sandpaper, and a wall mirror that's about 4 feet long.  Now that my work table is finally clear, I can use that as a long, dead slat sanding surface!

The mirror might work as "dead flat", it might not. Either way, it's probably going to be fine for what you're doing. Years ago, I got a 18" x 36" quartz floor tile for a couple of bucks from the big box store, and used it as the base for my sandpaper sharpening system. It was smooth and flat, had a lot of surface to stick different grits on, but heavy to move around.

[nanisong]

Flattening a hand plane should take 1–2 hours with good sandpaper and proper technique. Use coarser grit (80–120) to start, as 180 grit is too fine for heavy flattening. Change sandpaper often and check progress frequently with a straightedge and marker. If progress is slow, your sandpaper might be clogging or wearing out too quickly—consider upgrading to better quality or using a diamond stone for faster results. Keep going—you’ll get there!