Woodworking_Hobby Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 So my father-in-law has asked me to build a table to display a model ship. The table would be about 53-inches long by 38-inches wide by about 24-inches tall. The only other thing he mentioned was as maybe having a second shelf below the main top. I was thinking I could use Matt’s Sofa Table build from the WWG as my bones on how to build the table and get the second shelf and modify to what I am trying to build. I know I will have to modify things like removing the drawer and top shelf and not having a more solid top but more of a plank top with boards about 6-inches wide to build up the top panel. I was just seeing if you all thought that is a good starting point or had any other suggestions. His only other comments was is there anything that was nautical in design or in the wood selection we should consider :-). Not that I can think of but I have not looked around yet to see what the interwebs has to offer. TIA for any thoughts or suggestions. 1 Quote
Popular Post wtnhighlander Posted January 11 Popular Post Report Posted January 11 That table sounds like a good foundation design go work from. As for materisl selection to lend a 'nautical' feel, teak & mahogany are traditional species to use. Sepele is becoming a common alternative to the (much) more expensive teak. Whatever species you select, I'd look for tight, straight grain. Boats need structural strength, so highly figured woods would be avoided, especially in the visible hull components. However, it was common to use parts from a crotch or branch where an angled component was needed, since the grain already conformed to the angled shape and would be stronger than a joint. Incorporating a detail like that might be recognized by a bout-building enthusiast, but not the general public. 3 Quote
Popular Post Tpt life Posted January 11 Popular Post Report Posted January 11 Nautical…the method could be imitation deck, from any number of species. Corked and caulked, plank like looks are what I imagine. Model makers often gray weather planking with some acid/steel wool and other (flame) methods. My wife goes for driftwood when thinking nautical, but that can be too rustic for that purpose. Just spitballing. 4 Quote
Popular Post h3nry Posted January 11 Popular Post Report Posted January 11 Nautical design ... sounds like you need to practise some carving, like the sailors of yore in idle moments on long ocean passages. A couple of wooden bits I've added to my "ship" *The sapwood in this last one annoys me every time I see it ... it was almost invisible on the freshly planed cherry, but aged a bit in outdoor UV and you can't miss it. 7 Quote
Beechwood Chip Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 Amazing work! Whenever I think about adding some details like this to my pieces, I realize I'd need to get a laser engraver, a CNC, or spend a lot of time practicing my carving. 2 Quote
Popular Post h3nry Posted January 11 Popular Post Report Posted January 11 On 1/11/2025 at 3:01 PM, Beechwood Chip said: Amazing work! Whenever I think about adding some details like this to my pieces, I realize I'd need to get a laser engraver, a CNC, or spend a lot of time practicing my carving. On the other hand I feel I'd have to spend at least as much time honing my CAD skills to get satisfactory results from those tools as I did actually carving out bits of wood. But perhaps a more practical idea for the OP, would be a rope pattern carved into a moulding, as a simple place to start ... but that's just the start of the slippery slope adding carved features, before you know it there'll be knots in the rope and an anchor at the end. 4 Quote
Coop Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 I googled “nautical designed tables” and came up with some neat looking designs. Several from Wayfair, not that I’m advocating buying theirs, just borrowing their ideas. 2 Quote
Ron Swanson Jr. Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 Round table top like the wheel of a ship is all i can think of. Sorry. I suck at this stuff. 2 Quote
Popular Post Don Z. Posted January 12 Popular Post Report Posted January 12 So, a display for a model ship. Some thoughts: On the carving, you can probably find a pre-carved rope molding. Also consider if they legs are round, they can have a rope grain carved into them. A lower shelf may be helpful as well as maybe a pull-out shelf. I'd seriously consider a mirrored table top. This will make it easy to see the detail on the bottom as well. Assuming it is a rigged model, I'd seriously consider a glass box around it. Yes, this will add expense. But a problem with ship models is they are not easy to keep dusted. You can get at the deck, and maybe use canned air to dust off some of the smaller sections, but the rigging and sails will magically pull dust out of the air, and this is not easy to clean. You'd get to the point where you would have to re-rig the whole model! I'm not sure where you are, but there are maritime museums all over the country. Visit one, and you'll have some ideas for ship displays. Ideas here: https://catalogs.marinersmuseum.org/search?search_catalog=Collections&searchable-types-keyword=MODEL&searchable-exhibits-keyword=Ship Model Gallery 3 Quote
Woodworking_Hobby Posted January 15 Author Report Posted January 15 On 1/11/2025 at 11:11 AM, wtnhighlander said: That table sounds like a good foundation design go work from. As for materisl selection to lend a 'nautical' feel, teak & mahogany are traditional species to use. Sepele is becoming a common alternative to the (much) more expensive teak. Whatever species you select, I'd look for tight, straight grain. Boats need structural strength, so highly figured woods would be avoided, especially in the visible hull components. However, it was common to use parts from a crotch or branch where an angled component was needed, since the grain already conformed to the angled shape and would be stronger than a joint. Incorporating a detail like that might be recognized by a bout-building enthusiast, but not the general public. So my local hardwood supplier carries Sapele and it works out to be in the budget for the build. I think I am going to try that route. Have you used this wood before? Anything to be aware of? Most of my projects have been cherry or maple. I was also going to look it up on the wood database and a few other resources when I can find some time. Also are there any good books or references out there with rules of thumb for design? In terms of the joints and overall construction I have good information and guides, for example leg construction, aprons, M&T joints, etc. What I do not have is anything to really guide me are on the design elements of the build. For example, dimensions of the legs, dimensions of the aprons, thickness of parts relative to each other, how far the top should over hang the apron on the side and ends, distance from floor to bottom rails, etc. maybe this is all just feel and learning but thought I would see how others start doing this part on their own 2 Quote
Popular Post wtnhighlander Posted January 15 Popular Post Report Posted January 15 I have no real experience with sepele, but I know @gee-dub and some others here have worked with it extensively. Maybe one of them will chime in. As for design resources, https://www.byhandandeye.com/ is my favorite. Read the blog posts to get a feel for the content before committing to one or more of the books. Walker & Tolpin talk a lot about using whole number ratios, human-based units, and geometrical tools of the trade. Forget about "standardized" measurements, especially units that have no direct relationship to human ergonomics. Those can be used to share a design AFTER it is developed. And ignore the mystical 'golden rectangle' that is supposed to be the most 'pleasing' to the eye, but I have yet to hear a value explanation of why. Another source of design concepts I find valuable is anything related to Shaker furniture. No other style seems to take function and refine it so deeply into the territory of simplistic beauty. 2 1 Quote
curlyoak Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 What woodworking skills and tools do you possess? advice is influenced by those answers. 1 Quote
Woodworking_Hobby Posted January 17 Author Report Posted January 17 Ignore some of the fancy and the dimensions in the photo but this is where I am leaning. I would just do solid parts without the arches beading. and the I am also thinking the bottom rail to be centered and not offset. Overall dimensions will be: • Height: 32 inches • Length: 51 inches • Depth: 28 inches Legs will be 3.5 or 4 inches square and I am going to build out the rest of the dimensions based on this final. My last design questions is: 1. With the wood being quarter sawn do you think I need to look at breadboard for the end or will offsetting grain direction maybe do enough? I was just going to connect the top to base with a-clips. 2. In terms of work flow is it ok to build the base first and then make the top panel so I can connect to the top right after it is completed so it does not just sit around while I am building the base. Quote
Woodworking_Hobby Posted January 17 Author Report Posted January 17 On 1/15/2025 at 9:42 AM, curlyoak said: What woodworking skills and tools do you possess? advice is influenced by those answers. I have the tools that I can take rough lumber to final thickness and milled lumber. I have a friend that would loan me his domino or I could use a router to make M&T joints. My skill level depends on the day ;-). I have built a few things and know my way around the shop. But I am still in my learning phases and not near have master the skill like a lot of the regular posters on this site. Quote
curlyoak Posted January 17 Report Posted January 17 On 1/17/2025 at 12:47 PM, Woodworking_Hobby said: • Height: 32 inches I like the 24 high On 1/11/2025 at 11:31 AM, Woodworking_Hobby said: by about 24-inches tall I like 24 high for display of a model ship...Depending on the size of the ship, 18 high might work... 1 Quote
Popular Post wtnhighlander Posted January 18 Popular Post Report Posted January 18 I like the general look of the example table in your photo. Yes, centering the stretcher makes sense, the offset type is more eseful as a desk. 32" does seem a bit tall, but that choice really depends on how the model ship is to be displayed, and what other furniture is nearby. Without other information, I won't comment further. However, you may find 3" legs to be a bit 'chunky', and 4" legs certainly will be. The dimensions you listed are pretty close to the workbench in my little shop. Unless the model on display is monstrous in size, I think legs with a cross section 2.5" or less would be more elegant. But again, this is general advice, you must decide according to your needs. As for workflow, I think your idea to construct the base first is best. I also suggest adding a third apron rail across the middle, under the long span of the top. 4 1 Quote
pkinneb Posted January 18 Report Posted January 18 On 1/17/2025 at 6:26 PM, wtnhighlander said: ...However, you may find 3" legs to be a bit 'chunky', and 4" legs certainly will be. The dimensions you listed are pretty close to the workbench in my little shop. Unless the model on display is monstrous in size, I think legs with a cross section 2.5" or less would be more elegant... I agree 1 3/4 to 2 1/2 maybe add a taper 2 Quote
roughsawn Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 I recently built a coffee table with 2" legs, tapered to 1-1/2" at the bottom. M&T 4" aprons (1" thick) into them. It was a very solid foundation. 1" overhang on the side aprons...and front and back usually work well. You can rough mill the top to 1-1/2" overhang all the way around, then see how it looks, and make adjustments from there. That will change if you want it closer to, or up against a wall. Remember to account for baseboard trim with legs and top if you are going up against a wall. 2 Quote
h3nry Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 On 1/17/2025 at 10:47 AM, Woodworking_Hobby said: I'm curious ... is this a real table, or an AI generated image? I was zooming in to look at some of the construction details ... and it just doesn't add up in some places. 2 Quote
fcschoenthal Posted January 19 Report Posted January 19 On 1/19/2025 at 2:58 PM, h3nry said: I'm curious ... is this a real table, or an AI generated image? I was zooming in to look at some of the construction details ... and it just doesn't add up in some places. I noticed that as well. The beading doesn't line up and the joint between the stretcher and side stretcher looks pretty strange. 1 Quote
Woodworking_Hobby Posted January 21 Author Report Posted January 21 Yes it was AI generated; you are correct it was not exact but gave a rough idea of what it could look like based on my general thoughts. I have never had much luck yet getting an image generated based on what was described in text. It is just the free version so I am not surprised it did not provide a good sketch. Where it did excel was providing some ideas on spacing and dimensions of the general design elements (size of aprons, thickness of parts, and spacing from floor to bottom apron). I do not have much experience with the design of these fine details and it had some really good parameters that pointed me in the right direction and supplemented the other resources I found in books and online. Once I develop all of the final elements and dimensions I will sketch out my own version by hand and that is what I will use to build the table. 2 Quote
Woodworking_Hobby Posted January 28 Author Report Posted January 28 I am narrowing down on the design and will post something when I get it laid out. Are there any rules of thumb I should follow on tenon size (thickness and depths) where the upper aprons connect to the legs. The thickness of the leg will somewhat govern the mortise depth so the two tenons do not hit each other. Since the tenon provides most of the support to prevent the base from moving I just wanted to check if you used any rough guides. Also is there any reason why or when to use a tenon that is not centered in the part. When I did the shaker table build I remember the tenon was flush with the top of the apron and leg and then stopped some distance before the bottom of the apron but could not remember why 1 Quote
Popular Post wtnhighlander Posted January 28 Popular Post Report Posted January 28 I like to bury tenons into 50% of the leg thickness. That usually means the mortices overlap, so the tenons have to either be mitered, or haunched, so they can fill the overlapping space. If you are talking about the Shaker side table WW Guild project, I only remember the stretcher above the drawer having its tenon flush at the top. That made it possible to cut as a dovetail, to provide more strength against joint separation. But a straight tenon might also be flush at the top, with an open-topped mortice, so it goes together like a bridle joint, for simplicity. I have also seen tenons offset to one side of a splayed leg that is through-morticed into a seat plank. The tenon has just one shoulder in this case, turned so the splay angle of the leg forces the shoulder tight. Quick, simple, and strong. Maybe nit as pretty,but functional. Check out Chinese low workbench designs as an example. 3 1 Quote
Woodworking_Hobby Posted February 3 Author Report Posted February 3 On 1/27/2025 at 10:03 PM, wtnhighlander said: I like to bury tenons into 50% of the leg thickness. That usually means the mortices overlap, so the tenons have to either be mitered, or haunched, so they can fill the overlapping space. If you are talking about the Shaker side table WW Guild project, I only remember the stretcher above the drawer having its tenon flush at the top. That made it possible to cut as a dovetail, to provide more strength against joint separation. But a straight tenon might also be flush at the top, with an open-topped mortice, so it goes together like a bridle joint, for simplicity. I have also seen tenons offset to one side of a splayed leg that is through-morticed into a seat plank. The tenon has just one shoulder in this case, turned so the splay angle of the leg forces the shoulder tight. Quick, simple, and strong. Maybe nit as pretty,but functional. Check out Chinese low workbench designs as an example. I was thinking for the M&T I would just use a router to cut the mortise; cut the tenon on the table saw with the dado stack; and the round the corners. Similar to the instructions from the WW Rubio build. My friend has a 500 domino I could use, but I was worried it could be tricky to get the mortise centered correctly in the leg without a good reference point to make sure the apron and leg were centered left to right and vertical. I figured it was easier to set up stops for the router and mill the mortise exactly where I laid it out on the leg. There is another guy I know that has a pantonrouter but did not think that would work well for the long parts of the table and I did not want to mess with all of its settings to learn on this build and thought that would be better to save for another time. 1 Quote
fcschoenthal Posted February 3 Report Posted February 3 On 2/3/2025 at 12:48 PM, Woodworking_Hobby said: My friend has a 500 domino I could use, but I was worried it could be tricky to get the mortise centered correctly in the leg without a good reference point to make sure the apron and leg were centered left to right and vertical. I figured it was easier to set up stops for the router and mill the mortise exactly where I laid it out on the leg. The Domino can be tricky to learn, but your friend may be able to give you some pointers (or help with the first couple). I've learned to always practice on a scrap piece every time I make an adjustment, to make sure that I'm not messing something up. It's really easy once you get the hang of it and it goes so much quicker than cutting the mortice and tenons. Especially if you've got quite a few to do. I had more trouble setting up the router for an offset mortice than working through the Domino settings. 1 Quote
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