Glue Up Question

[roughsawn]

I'm building a bookcase out of hardwood (oak). I will use stopped dado's to join the shelf to the sides, and the sides to the top. Will there be any problem with wood movement, and such, with gluing the ends of the shelf to the sides?

The customer does not want screws coming in from the sides...for appearance sake. No back at this time. So I am slightly concerned with racking.

It's a horizontal bookcase, with a simple top, and one bottom shelf 2" above the floor. (56" wide, 12" deep, 16" tall)

Will racking, or wood movement be an issue if glued properly.

[Beechwood Chip]

With no back, as long as the grain direction is the same on all pieces, wood movement should not be an issue.  Picture all the pieces expanding and contracting across the grain - as long as they are all expanding and contracting front to back, they should all move together.

With no back you'll have racking problems unless you have some other method to prevent it.  Especially since, at 16" tall, someone is going to sit or stand on it at some point.

How thick is your stock?

[legenddc]

If the sides, shelf and top all have the wood in the same direction than it should all move together.

No back? Could you at least get a board vertically under the top at the back and under the bottom shelf?

[Beechwood Chip]

If you absolutely can't add a full or partial back or diagonal bracing, then I'd screw in these sorts of brackets everywhere.

 

[roughsawn]

Material will be 1"-1-1/16" thick. Instead of 1/8" dado's, I think I'll run with 1/4" deep...as I have plenty of material to work with.

Yes, all the grain on all the boards will be running in the same direction. I'd still like to add screws and plugs to the shelf. 

[roughsawn]

On 4/15/2025 at 2:28 PM, legenddc said:

If the sides, shelf and top all have the wood in the same direction than it should all move together.

No back? Could you at least get a board vertically under the top at the back and under the bottom shelf?

Good Idea. Maybe a 2" strip. That would help, and probably be invisible from above.

[roughsawn]

Good suggestion, legend. I just talked to the boss. I'll add a 2" strip across the back of the underneath of the top, and under the bottom shelf. Running the whole length, horizontally. Maybe I'll counterbore some holes, and come up from the bottom into the top and bottom shelf. Pocket holes and screws aren't out of the equation either. Out of sight, of course.

Should be plenty stout. Thanks again!

[Coop]

I think pocket screws are an excellent idea. Just out of curiosity, why is the customer adamant about no back? Maybe so he can access the contents from both sides? 1/4” ply recessed in rabbets will go a long way to prevent racking.

[roughsawn]

Going in a new addition with knotty pine all the way to the floor. Kind of rustic. I guess they want to see the wall behind it? I think they kind of want to keep it minimalistic. And new hardwood floor. I think it will tie in better this way.

No prob, I can make it work. 1" material, 1/4" deep stopped dado's, a little glue, and some inconspicuous bracing, and we will be all set. 

[curlyoak]

I glue and screw. I hide the screws with a flat grain plug. Nobody complains.

[roughsawn]

I agree curly. I've been thinking about this alot. Maybe too much. I'm going to run it past him again. I'm building furniture that stays together, and lasts for generations. Not falls apart. 

Thanks for that.

[gee-dub]

With no back you could use sliding dovetails for a couple of the fixed shelves and just glue the front 2-3 inches.  I've done this with breadboards to maintain the front elevations throughout the year.  Things move at the rear.  

The spline is just decorative.  I've also tried this with cabinet sides.

11 years on this one and still working

[Mark J]

3 hours ago, roughsawn said:

.... I'm building furniture that stays together, and lasts for generations. Not falls apart. 

This.

[BillyJack]

It should have a back.

[roughsawn]

I agree 100%. They are both adamant that it does not have a back. So I'm accommodating them. I've explained everything. Now I just build it, and move on.

gee-man, sliding dovetails were an option...but without a back, I believe  glued, screwed, and plugs will give me the most strength. 

[Mark J]

Steel  brackets, too?

[wtnhighlander]

If you can talk them into adding aprons under the bottom shelf (front and back) and maybe setting that bottom shelf just a touch higher off the floor, it will add considerable strength.  That still leaves the shelves open to see through, and adds a bit of visual weight to the design.

Not as good as a full back, but waaaaay better than just shelves in stopped dadoes.

[roughsawn]

On 4/21/2025 at 7:05 PM, Mark J said:

Steel  brackets, too?

No, I don't think so. I believe the glued and screwed dados will be enough. Especially with 1" oak.

[Beechwood Chip]

On 4/22/2025 at 8:11 AM, roughsawn said:

No, I don't think so. I believe the glued and screwed dados will be enough. Especially with 1" oak.

As long as people are gentle when they sit on it.  Will it be near an entrance, where people might sit to take off / put on their shoes?

[Coop]

Friends that sit on tables and bookcases should find another place to plop their butts or stay home. 

[fcschoenthal]

My thought is that you build it the best you can with the constraints that you've been given. I think you've done your best to advise of potential pitfalls. I hate to say it, but if something does happen with it, you can redo it, but certainly not under a warranty status. You can then add the back or supports or whatever is required, I'm sure with a lot less resistance.

Remember, the customer is always right, until they aren't.

[Beechwood Chip]

On 4/22/2025 at 9:50 PM, Coop said:

Friends that sit on tables and bookcases should find another place to plop their butts or stay home. 

I was picturing 16" tall, and to me that's not a bookcase, it's a bench.  Come to think of it, if it's not a bench, why is it so low?  Just curious.

[Coop]

“Ours is not to reason why, …..” 

 

” 

[roughsawn]

Built in, to fit under a window.

[BillyJack]

Bottom line…..

 

If you are building this, you build it correctly

 

If they are building  this, then build it how they want it and walk away..