Avoidance Behaviour

[jHop]

Thank you Shannon

Ditto. I've got a leatherwork project on the bench right now (no room for anything else at the moment) that is waiting for me to finish learning to dye on scraps. After dinner, I'm going to get started on it. (mostly so I can clear off the bench, and get back to woodwork.)

[gardnesd]

I love woodworking because it is done in fractions of inches, not fractions of millimeters. I do the millimeter thing all day at work. Woodworking is macro to me.

[Chester]

I can relate... The last 1.5yrs has been gathering all my tools and creating the carts/jigs/cabinets/tables for it. If not mistaken, my only non shop related projects have been::

3 Frames

1 coat rack

2 cutting boards

I would like to have thought I progressed out of this stage however my next 2 projects are shop related. lol

Brian -

I really believe that the need to keep working on the shop can be an addiction. I think that I am currently addicted.

My shop has been in the transition and building stages of a "double-the-size" project. The work has been going-on for the best part of the last 2-years. It has included major items like ceiling and wall insulation, ceiling and wall enclosure, installation of new stationary power tools, electric power upgrades, building of new shop fixtures and furniture, new vertical wall and a door, storage closet, re-lighting, dust collection system installation, etc. I have been doing this for so long that I think that I am addicted. I have loved doing most of it. Much of it has been hard, down-and-dirty work.

I just finished the new fluorescent lighting installation. This is a part of the job that I was somewhat dreading (saved it for last). But, as it turned out, I ended-up liking it. I got better at it as I went and, with each new fixture installation, the resulting difference in the shop was amazing.

But now I am basically done with the shop. I find myself still going up there looking for the next thing to transform ... and I can't really find one. It is kind of a let-down. I told my wife that I need to start building something. That was the purpose for all of this. But my shop has been in this transitional mess stage for so long that, now that it is done and clean, I find myself just sitting up there and taking it all in.

Is there a way to break this shop addiction?

[Chester]

I strive for perfection and my fear of not delivering froze me. In sports somebody would say that I choked.

Is it fear to make crap? Is it that my expectations are too high? Is it that I don’t have the skills?

All of this pushed me to a constant state of search … research and never ends.

I came to the constant state of watching and then spoke with friends about this.

I realized that this is “Avoidance Behavior”.

So, knowing this, I moved forward and mad my list of things to accomplish and that is where I am.

Bobby -

I know that at one time I did suffer from "avoidance behavior." After years of building stuff and becoming less and less confident in my outcomes, I basically stopped building stuff.

At first I didn't even realize that I had stopped ... and certainly not "why?" After getting the chance to expand my shop a couple of years ago, I started looking at what tools I wanted to have and how they would be arranged. As with most shops, my tablesaw seemed to be primary to all other tools. I had an old Craftsman contractors style tablesaw. It was in very good shape and had been modified to include my router table in its left wing. I really liked this arrangement. But I always wanted a 220V, 3hp, cabinet-style table saw and decided that it was time for the upgrade.

What do I do with the old saw? Well, I knew that I would never get anyone to pay me what I thought that it was worth (with the modifications). But I had accuracy issues with this saw that had never been resolved. For most of its life, I had trouble getting accurate, square, repeatable cuts. And I was convinced that all of these issues emanated from poor fence alignment and poor blade alignment in the table. I had also come to believe that these misalignments were largely because of my own inability to perform the proper calibration skills. This, as I discovered, was only partially true.

After speaking with other owners of this mid-80's CM saw, I started to realize that there were inherent flaws in the OEM fence system that could not be overcome. A fellow "Woodwhisperer" friend (Nabil) showed me how he had removed the OEM fence and installed a new Delta T2 Fence system. Nabil was very pleased with his new fence and encouraged me to take the plunge ... which I did. So, I decided to keep the old CM saw and use it as part of a dual-tablesaw-outfeed system (http://woodtalkonline.com/gallery/album/486/141-dual-table-saw-outfeed-system/) ... and with Nabs help, was able to complete the actual installation. The fence is fantastic.

At about this same time I made acquaintance with a local woodworker that, before retirement, had been a machinist. And in his life as a machinist, he was charged with keeping all of the machine tools properly tuned and calibrated. John came into my shop with what looked like a Doctor's bag of very cool calibration tools and guages. This process took place over time but at the end, John had calibrated my old CM tablesaw, my new Grizzly 0690 TS, my RAS, my jointer and my planer.

What I have taken a very long time to say here is that having my tools "trued" has made all the difference in my confidence to do projects. I did not even realize that I had basically stopped building because I had lost faith in the accuracy of my tools. I really didn't even have the confidence that I could mill basic square lumber. And that is a bad place to be as a woodworker.

Now, I am still amazed at the squareness and repeatability of my cuts. I believe that if you get in there and (by whatever means) make sure that your tools are properly trued, you will find renewed confidence to ... stop "avoiding!"

Chester

[Bobby Slack]

Good morning Chester. Starting this thread was like standing in the middle of fellow woodworkers and saying "Hello my name is Bobby and I have Avoidance Behaviour". then immediately I built the printer stand.

Now I am building these mitre boxes which is an experiment to sell drawers. Nobody has the money to buy new kitchens, I was in the business of selling super high end German and Swiss hardware. So if nobody has the money to build a new kitchen which involves tile, electrical, plumbing, appliances, new ceiling, insulation, drywall, and ... forgot ... cabinets.

So what to do?

Build nice drawers and install them where people have deep shelves. Here is where my hardware knowledge comes in. I will use top notch slides which will perform. I could use undermount slides for a small opening but if you are going to use the drawer for pots and pans and the opening is 33" I would never use an undermount because they are rated at best for 100 lbs.

Using the right drawer slide for the right application is a whole different thread.

What I am taking long to say is I want to build a new stile of drawers which denote craftsmanship, I can build, sell and install and survive in this economy.

I invested a lot of money in tools and need to make this a go.

Going to your shop ... your shop looks amazing and you have lots of space between the machines to walk around. I use the middle for my Festool approach, my Bosch contractor saw just makes a few trims.

Today I will continue with the drawers and will attach a .... that goes in the "less ugly boxes thread". Thank you for your support.

"Hello I am Bobby Slack and I suffer from Avoidance Behaviour"

Bobby -

I know that at one time I did suffer from "avoidance behavior." After years of building stuff and becoming less and less confident in my outcomes, I basically stopped building stuff.

At first I didn't even realize that I had stopped ... and certainly not "why?" After getting the chance to expand my shop a couple of years ago, I started looking at what tools I wanted to have and how they would be arranged. As with most shops, my tablesaw seemed to be primary to all other tools. I had an old Craftsman contractors style tablesaw. It was in very good shape and had been modified to include my router table in its left wing. I really liked this arrangement. But I always wanted a 220V, 3hp, cabinet-style table saw and decided that it was time for the upgrade.

What do I do with the old saw? Well, I knew that I would never get anyone to pay me what I thought that it was worth (with the modifications). But I had accuracy issues with this saw that had never been resolved. For most of its life, I had trouble getting accurate, square, repeatable cuts. And I was convinced that all of these issues emanated from poor fence alignment and poor blade alignment in the table. I had also come to believe that these misalignments were largely because of my own inability to perform the proper calibration skills. This, as I discovered, was only partially true.

After speaking with other owners of this mid-80's CM saw, I started to realize that there were inherent flaws in the OEM fence system that could not be overcome. A fellow "Woodwhisperer" friend (Nabil) showed me how he had removed the OEM fence and installed a new Delta T2 Fence system. Nabil was very pleased with his new fence and encouraged me to take the plunge ... which I did. So, I decided to keep the old CM saw and use it as part of a dual-tablesaw-outfeed system (http://woodtalkonline.com/gallery/album/486/141-dual-table-saw-outfeed-system/) ... and with Nabs help, was able to complete the actual installation. The fence is fantastic.

At about this same time I made acquaintance with a local woodworker that, before retirement, had been a machinist. And in his life as a machinist, he was charged with keeping all of the machine tools properly tuned and calibrated. John came into my shop with what looked like a Doctor's bag of very cool calibration tools and guages. This process took place over time but at the end, John had calibrated my old CM tablesaw, my new Grizzly 0690 TS, my RAS, my jointer and my planer.

What I have taken a very long time to say here is that having my tools "trued" has made all the difference in my confidence to do projects. I did not even realize that I had basically stopped building because I had lost faith in the accuracy of my tools. I really didn't even have the confidence that I could mill basic square lumber. And that is a bad place to be as a woodworker.

Now, I am still amazed at the squareness and repeatability of my cuts. I believe that if you get in there and (by whatever means) make sure that your tools are properly trued, you will find renewed confidence to ... stop "avoiding!"

Chester

[Chester]

Good morning Chester. Starting this thread was like standing in the middle of fellow woodworkers and saying "Hello my name is Bobby and I have Avoidance Behaviour". then immediately I built the printer stand.

Now I am building these mitre boxes which is an experiment to sell drawers. Nobody has the money to buy new kitchens, I was in the business of selling super high end German and Swiss hardware. So if nobody has the money to build a new kitchen which involves tile, electrical, plumbing, appliances, new ceiling, insulation, drywall, and ... forgot ... cabinets.

So what to do?

Build nice drawers and install them where people have deep shelves. Here is where my hardware knowledge comes in. I will use top notch slides which will perform. I could use undermount slides for a small opening but if you are going to use the drawer for pots and pans and the opening is 33" I would never use an undermount because they are rated at best for 100 lbs.

Using the right drawer slide for the right application is a whole different thread.

What I am taking long to say is I want to build a new stile of drawers which denote craftsmanship, I can build, sell and install and survive in this economy.

I invested a lot of money in tools and need to make this a go.

Going to your shop ... your shop looks amazing and you have lots of space between the machines to walk around. I use the middle for my Festool approach, my Bosch contractor saw just makes a few trims.

Today I will continue with the drawers and will attach a .... that goes in the "less ugly boxes thread". Thank you for your support.

"Hello I am Bobby Slack and I suffer from Avoidance Behaviour"

Bobby -

I hope that this "12-step" program is helping you ... but as woodworkers, we mean something entirely different when we say "12-step" program .

Re: your drawers business plan, I find this very interesting. The drawers in our kitchen look good but are old and the roller sliders are crap. I often try to figure out how to install some good sliders, but where do you mount ball bearing sliders in commercial face-framed kitchen cabinet boxes? Once the drawer is removed, there is nothing back there. Keep us posted on your ideas ...

PS - The sliders that I got for the drawers in my new chopsaw station are "push-to-open" sliders. I like them very much.

[Bobby Slack]

Chester;

On commercial slides you have basically three models:

Epoxy slides which are cheap and work. The problem is that they only come out 3/4" out of your box.

Ballbearing slides, these are excellent and will work forever. The Accuride brand www.accuride.com has many different models and the way you figure out which ones to use is by looking at the width of your drawer. Everybody uses the 3832 full extension because is rated for 100 lbs. but this slide is rated for an 18" opening. I saw this slide on 36" drawers and the drawer was racking and dancing la vida loca.

I build in my office six drawers using the model 3640 because it has an 1" of overtravel and is rated for 36" openings. There is no racking.

For smaller openings I use the model 7434 because again has overtravel. I personally don't use the 3832, nor the 3834 models, these are old.

Undermount. Most people think that Blum is the only game in town and build their boxes at 24" of depth and use a 21" slide. There are other manufactureres who make 24" slides. I don't like Accuride's 24" slide and like the Quadro from Hettich.

I try to match as much as possible the depth of the box with the drawer and maximize space.

Some of my pro friends tell me that I design as I am building a submarine.

Bobby -

I hope that this "12-step" program is helping you ... but as woodworkers, we mean something entirely different when we say "12-step" program .

Re: your drawers business plan, I find this very interesting. The drawers in our kitchen look good but are old and the roller sliders are crap. I often try to figure out how to install some good sliders, but where do you mount ball bearing sliders in commercial face-framed kitchen cabinet boxes? Once the drawer is removed, there is nothing back there. Keep us posted on your ideas ...

PS - The sliders that I got for the drawers in my new chopsaw station are "push-to-open" sliders. I like them very much.

[Bobby Slack]

Chester. Your situation in the kitchen is the exact same issue I have with a client who I am retrofitting his drawers. Here are the options.

1. In the back of the cabinet slap a 3/4" piece of plywood (I never use MDF) or MDF if you want, and attach this to the studs. Prior to that you could attach some blocks to make the wall level. Attach the plywood to the studs and you will have now a solid back. Another e cheap approach is to use "L" brackets to the bottom of the cabinet and the on top of the inside (bottom side of your countertop). With this back you can now attach sides and you have a full back and full sides to attach any kind of drawer.

2. Make sure everything is square ... of course you know this.

------

another circumstance is if you have side panels and using your planer you can attach shims to make your sides flush with your opening and now you are dealing with a Euro box.

For cabinet and closets personally I can't stand face frames you waste a lot of interior space if you are going to use drawers or high end kitchen accessories.

Bobby -

I hope that this "12-step" program is helping you ... but as woodworkers, we mean something entirely different when we say "12-step" program .

Re: your drawers business plan, I find this very interesting. The drawers in our kitchen look good but are old and the roller sliders are crap. I often try to figure out how to install some good sliders, but where do you mount ball bearing sliders in commercial face-framed kitchen cabinet boxes? Once the drawer is removed, there is nothing back there. Keep us posted on your ideas ...

PS - The sliders that I got for the drawers in my new chopsaw station are "push-to-open" sliders. I like them very much.

[ronnie]

Since every one is clearing the air!!!!!

Last year I was in the shop quete a bit. I would build a lot of stuff to take to the show's/trade days. I built coffie tables, end tables, jewelry boxes. And to be honest with you I built a little bit of every thing. I even did some engraving. Plus I sold and built a cedar intertainment center. I dont think that I have ever worked out in the shop as much as I did last year. I mean I put in some time... Well with all that being said around about the middle of last year I had an order for two rocking chairs. That would be only the second time that I had ever built a rocking chair and this time I would need to build two of them... Well before I got started I could tell that I was beggining to get a little burn out. Who ever thought that you could get burnt out from working in the shop. Well I was. Well I began to make all the parts for the rocking chairs When I was almost done cutting every thing out, some thing told me to join all the pieces. Well I dont have a joiner but I could use my router table for a joiner. Thats what I did for the intertainment center. Well any way some thing was telling me to join the parts but I didnt. Is that lazy or what? Well any way the customer wanted me to paint them white. So I had some flat white, (hum I could use this) So I put every thing together and It all looked swell I thought that I did ok.. Well it was hot the day that I started painting and I was painting with a brush out in the middle of the sun and dont forget it was flat white. Not a good choice.. Well the paint was not working out too well for me. And the white paint was showing out all my unjoined surfaces. It was showing all my imperfections. I new in my heart that they were not up to par. But I delivered them any way. I was ready to be finished. Needless to say they were rejected. Well after all that I felt pretty lowzy if you know what I mean. Well I cleaned them up and repainted them with some other paint/semi gloss or some thing like that I dont realy remimber what I came back with. Any way I took them to a show and sold them. It took me a while to get over it.I was so dissappointed in my self that I didnt even want to go out to shop. So what did I do? I lived and I learned Thats what I did.... It was a learning experiance.. Pray Pray Pray thats what I say. Well thats all for now....

[Vic]

Almost six years here. I still have a couple things left, too! But, I've also done some remodeling on the house and developed our property. But, I AM finally doing some real furniture and couldn't be happier!

Brian -

I really believe that the need to keep working on the shop can be an addiction. I think that I am currently addicted.

My shop has been in the transition and building stages of a "double-the-size" project. The work has been going-on for the best part of the last 2-years. It has included major items like ceiling and wall insulation, ceiling and wall enclosure, installation of new stationary power tools, electric power upgrades, building of new shop fixtures and furniture, new vertical wall and a door, storage closet, re-lighting, dust collection system installation, etc. I have been doing this for so long that I think that I am addicted. I have loved doing most of it. Much of it has been hard, down-and-dirty work.

I just finished the new fluorescent lighting installation. This is a part of the job that I was somewhat dreading (saved it for last). But, as it turned out, I ended-up liking it. I got better at it as I went and, with each new fixture installation, the resulting difference in the shop was amazing.

But now I am basically done with the shop. I find myself still going up there looking for the next thing to transform ... and I can't really find one. It is kind of a let-down. I told my wife that I need to start building something. That was the purpose for all of this. But my shop has been in this transitional mess stage for so long that, now that it is done and clean, I find myself just sitting up there and taking it all in.

Is there a way to break this shop addiction?

[Chester]

Almost six years here. I still have a couple things left, too! But, I've also done some remodeling on the house and developed our property. But, I AM finally doing some real furniture and couldn't be happier!

Vic -

I think that I saw a posting of your shop some time ago and it is very enviable (in a good way). The space you have is what we would all wish for!

Chester

[Vic]

Vic -

I think that I saw a posting of your shop some time ago and it is very enviable (in a good way). The space you have is what we would all wish for!

Chester

You might've seen it in the Chatroom. Other than my wallpaper on my profile, I've never documented it. But, thank you!

[Chester]

Vic -

Pretty sure it was in the chatroom ...