The Difinative Crown Molding Primer

[dryhter]

Coping with Crown

I was killing some time watching some videos at YouTube the other day and came across a bunch of videos about “How to install Crown Molding”, I felt many missed the mark. Crown molding has gotten a reputation of being difficult to install and I admit I have seen plenty of poorly installed crown, but with just a little bit of understanding and guidance almost anyone can do an admirable job. Part of the problem is just figuring out how to cut the molding. That topic will be dealt with in another video. You seem to be stymied before you even get started and your anxiety level goes through the roof. Another part of the problem is making the coped joint. Once you get the cutting part figured out you now have to use a joinery technique that you may have only heard of before. You might be tempted to use a mitered joint, don’t do it. This short video concentrates on making the coped joint.

The coped joint is the proper joint for any inside corner, and especially useful for crown molding due to it’s forgiving nature and ability to make minor corrections by rolling the joint (he, he, heh, rolling the joint, we need to talk about that later also).

Anyways, . ….

The coping saw is probably one of the cheapest and safest tools you will buy. $20.00 will get you a good saw frame and spare pack of blades and the best thing is no cord. Kind of a one tasker tool, but it does that task so well and quickly. The learning curve is very flat, 4-5 practice run and you will be accomplished, 10-15 and you will be cutting copes like a pro. The only negative about using a coping saw is that it takes more skill to cope a straight line than a curved line and someone did say that their arm got tired(OH ,MY!). It is also clean to use (as are most hand tools, not throwing a lot of dust and chips all over the place), and portable (did I mention, no cord). I made a cope on some ¾ X 3 5/8 in. poplar crown molding in about 1 minute and 15 seconds using my coping saw. I have used the same saw to install 5 ½ in. oak crown with similar results.

I have heard of people suggesting to use and even using a jig saw, a grinder or table saw and my first reaction was “Are you crazy?’. I thought about it and after a while I just figured, that they just didn’t have a coping saw to use and were just trying to GET ERR DONE., I have been there and done that, sometimes you just have to be resourceful. If you are a novice woodworker DO NOT even consider using one of the other tools. And if you are a professional, well .. . . . .

Some future episodes I was thinking about, understanding crown molding orientation when cutting, rolling your joint for the perfect fit, spring angle, anything can be made into crown molding, let me know of your interest.

Tags:video, crown molding, coping, how to

[khill]

It looked like the cuts were at an angle to the molding, did you already cut a 45 or something other degree onto the end? Can you show how the pieces fit together? Thanks for the demonstration.

[Walter Wolf G.]

hi, just a few questions, I don't really know anything about crown moldings. Why coping? what's the difference between coping and making a mitered cut? is it because sometimes the walls aren't 90° and you can sort of move it till you get the perfect fit? I can't really visualize in my head the difference, but that's because I've never done either.

Walter Wolf

[PaulMarcel]

It has to do with movement. Walls move seasonally so the gap in the miter will open/close. If you just cut them both at 45° and abut them, you'll likely find a gap there later.

For paint-grade crown, you can get away with abutting them with a small gap and filling the gap with paintable caulk. Caulk is flexible to stay stuck to both members through the movement.

For stain-grade crown, you'll want one wall to have the crown abut to the adjoining wall. On that adjoining wall, you'll have coped crown. The coped edge lets you see the other wall's crown, correct? So your eye will always see a clean corner. Here's my cheezy picture to show you what I mean:

In the picture, the topmost picture shows a wall section in black with red molding that's coped (horizontal piece is coped into vertical in the picture). The topmost picture shows a small gap and what the eye sees. It sees the other molding; corner looks good. Bottommost picture shows the gap when it is larger (winter!); dispite that the gap is larger, your eye sees "off the edge" of the coped molding to a place further in on the other molding, but it still looks good. You only notice the gap if you are against the wall look at it straight.

Note while the picture shows big gaps, you don't make them that big... in the summer, abut them tight (humid season). In the winter, give it some gap to account for summer swelling.

[petersb]

Coping is the only way to go!

Not only is it good for crown moulding but for any trim work where an inside corner is. I would consider myself a novice at moulding and I did a bunch of it in my house for the first time and the joints look perfect! I am NOT bragging, it's just that easy to get good results.

I used to fight the gaps in trimwork UNTIL I started to cope.

In my experience, a good "how to" book on trim and some patience is worth the effort. Not to mention saving the BIG $$$ by doing yourself.

Brett

[dryhter]

It has to do with movement. Walls move seasonally so the gap in the miter will open/close. If you just cut them both at 45° and abut them, you'll likely find a gap there later.

For paint-grade crown, you can get away with abutting them with a small gap and filling the gap with paintable caulk. Caulk is flexible to stay stuck to both members through the movement.

For stain-grade crown, you'll want one wall to have the crown abut to the adjoining wall. On that adjoining wall, you'll have coped crown. The coped edge lets you see the other wall's crown, correct? So your eye will always see a clean corner. Here's my cheezy picture to show you what I mean:

In the picture, the topmost picture shows a wall section in black with red molding that's coped (horizontal piece is coped into vertical in the picture). The topmost picture shows a small gap and what the eye sees. It sees the other molding; corner looks good. Bottommost picture shows the gap when it is larger (winter!); dispite that the gap is larger, your eye sees "off the edge" of the coped molding to a place further in on the other molding, but it still looks good. You only notice the gap if you are against the wall look at it straight.

Note while the picture shows big gaps, you don't make them that big... in the summer, abut them tight (humid season). In the winter, give it some gap to account for summer swelling.

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Hey Paul-Marcel,

That is correct, but that is only part of it, when fitting an inside corner such as baseboard or chair rail you are only concerned with the wall to wall angle, with crown you also have to consider the wall to ceiling angle, a coped joint allows you to roll the crown up or down the wall to ceiling angle in order to get a good fit, this is not possible using a mitered joint

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[dryhter]

It looked like the cuts were at an angle to the molding, did you already cut a 45 or something other degree onto the end? Can you show how the pieces fit together? Thanks for the demonstration.

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Hey Kyle,

I am planing on doing some more videos on this but in the mean time here is a LINK to some crown molding videos at youtube.

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[Walter Wolf G.]

Ok, now I get it. Good to know! Thanks.

Hoping to see more videos about coping. I'll wait for them

Walter

[dvandalsen]

Good questions. Here's one that I've pondered: Why does crown molding always have the same ratio of wall to ceiling? Profiles vary, widths vary, but it seems the compound angle for an inside 90 degree is always the same. Just wondering.

[dryhter]

Good questions. Here's one that I've pondered: Why does crown molding always have the same ratio of wall to ceiling? Profiles vary, widths vary, but it seems the compound angle for an inside 90 degree is always the same. Just wondering.

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Hey Dennis,

I am not sure what you are talking about, the spring angle or the setting for cutting crown on a sliding compound miter saw (scms) . The spring angle, is the relationship of the crown to the vertical wall,seldom is it 45/45*, usually 38/52* sometimes 35/55* maybe 42/48* or could be 52/38*. Usually bigger crown is meant for taller ceilings, so it has a more horizontal tilt. I use 51/2in. crown when making mantles and re cut for a more vertical angle all the time Experiment with different angles to give the most pleasing view. Re cut the angle on the Table saw. Or try this take piece of 1X4 and cut some angle near the 45/45*, your choice, install it then go back with another molding, say a chair rail profile and apply it to the 1X4, and you will have yourself a very unique crown mold.

If you are talking about miter and bevel settings, I never use that method and am unfamiliar with the trigonometry involved. If it is something else give me a shout back.

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[dvandalsen]

I always use the miter/bevel settings as I tried tilting the molding against the base and fence once and it slipped while cutting. I don't do enough to set up a cutting guide for each size and I just use the factory settings on the compound miter saw and never seem to need anything else. I normally buy the stock crown moldings, so maybe they are all the same in terms of required miter/bevel setting.

[PaulMarcel]

Dennis, you really should try holding the molding upside-down with the spring angle to the fence (so, like you'd install it, but upside down). It makes the cuts so much faster to deal with +45 and -45 miters and no bevel (though I measure the corner for uncoped joints). True, it can be awkward to hold. One thing that helps is a box the height of the deck of your saw placed under the molding at the far end so you aren't fighting gravity as well.

When i first started, I used a jig from Rockler for crown molding. Completely optional, to be honest, but at the time, it helped me out. Certainly, you could make your own if you study the picture.

For paint-grade molding, any error in the miter/bevel compound angle can be caulked away. Stain-grade though needs to be a lot more accurate, even though you are coping one side.

Word of warning about that jig... because the molding being cut is above the deck and away from the fence, small offcuts will often times get launched by the blade. That's the #1 reason I don't use it.