100% tung oil & mineral oil question


susieq4131

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I use 100% tung oil which I purchase from the woodworking store as the finish on my wooden bowls that I make on a scroll saw. I take it straight out of the bottle and rub it on with a clean cloth. Let it set for a few minutes and wipe it off. I usually apply 3 coats, allowing each coat to dry before applying the next coat. Is there a secret to applying or buffing tung oil to give it more of a shine? The finish I'm getting looks adequate. From what I've read, I think the shine could be improved. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciate.

I took another bowl I made out of maple wood and used FDA approved mineral oil as the finish. I really liked the feel and look of it. Is mineral oil a good choice for bowls? I realize it does need to be replenished often. I like the fact that mineral oil doesn't change the color of the wood unlike the 100% tung oil. I purchased this wood preservative from the woodworking store. Is all mineral oil the same? Is it all FDA approved? I've heard you can buy it at the drug store. Is it the same quality as what I'm getting from the woodworking store?

I've thought about walnut oil as a finish, but have relatives that are allergic to walnuts and other nuts so have avoided trying that product. Would like to sell some of these bowls (someday) and want a product that people wouldn't be allergic to.

I have avoided shellac. From what I've read, if water gets underneath it, it's difficult to repair.

Any suggestions on wooden bowl finishes? Of course I want food safe and easy to apply. Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

SQ

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I can't really answer your finishing questions, but I just did a google search and most qustions could be answered there if one is willing to search it out.

I made a bunch of cutting boards a few years ago and I did the internet research then and have forgotten it all since then. I just ended up using the watco butcher block finish in the can.

Here is one of the results of the search.

http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/butcherblock.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=finishing+cutting+boards&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=

I do remember reading somewhere on the internet about different results with the walnut oil. Some said it was good for cutting boards and some said not.

As far as getting a shinier finish, I would try multiple coats and using someting with power to buff it out. Maybe a buffing wheel on a grinder or one that you could chuck up in a drill.

Just some thoughts for you.

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How is that Dewalt scrollsaw treating you? I see that you are cutting some thick hard wood with your saw.

I am thinking of getting that one. Grizzly has it listed for $449 with the stand and light. That seemed like a smoking deal for a new retail sell.

A scrollsaw is what got me into woodworking. I still have the saw and the kids use it mostly.

Brett

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I can't really answer your finishing questions, but I just did a google search and most qustions could be answered there if one is willing to search it out.

I made a bunch of cutting boards a few years ago and I did the internet research then and have forgotten it all since then. I just ended up using the watco butcher block finish in the can.

Here is one of the results of the search.

http://www.woodfinishsupply.com/butcherblock.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=finishing+cutting+boards&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=

I do remember reading somewhere on the internet about different results with the walnut oil. Some said it was good for cutting boards and some said not.

As far as getting a shinier finish, I would try multiple coats and using someting with power to buff it out. Maybe a buffing wheel on a grinder or one that you could chuck up in a drill.

Just some thoughts for you.

Brett,

My understanding is that many of the nut/seed oils are not good to use because they go rancid.

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Brett & Vic,

Thanks for the links and information. Will check those out.

There is some good information out there about walnut oil. Most agree that it will not go rancid. But one in particular noted that anyone allergic to walnuts should avoid this product.

I'm happy with the DeWalt. It cuts really thick wood without a problem - up to 2 inches. It's a real work horse. The throat depth is also really nice. I've cut wall hanging on this saw that were 23 inches in diameter. It does seem to go through fuses - so get extras. The saw also comes with a little tool for opening the fuse box and changing the fuses. Take care not to lose that little tool for changing the fuses, like I did. The tool is easier and quicker to use than a screw driver. lol My 788 uses #3AG fuses. I have only one extra fuse right now, so I need to buy more.

I use 3 coats of 100% tung oil right now and buff with a buffing pad chucked into the drill press. Thinking additional coats might be the answer. Perhaps even increasing the speed while buffing might also provide a better finish. Thanks for all the good ideas.

SQ

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I'm definitely curious to know if more buffing makes any difference. From my understanding, buffing basically works by either using micro-abrasives to refine the surface (read: buffing compound) or by friction; melting the finish that's applied to smooth it out. Ie: the plastic finish on pens and such.

If all you have is oil on the surface, I wouldn't think that more buffing would do anything but swirl the oil around more, unless you are buffing so hard that you are actually microscopically sanding the wood.

When I've wanted a smoother finish on something but only wanted to use oil, I've just sanded to a much higher grit. I use the micromesh pads and sand all the way up to 12,000 sometimes. Have you tried those? You can get a glass-smooth finish on wood. I've read that some people won't use them because the finish is so smooth and shiny that customers look at the product and don't want it because they think it's plastic. The interesting thing to watch out for with sanding higher is that the wood ends up taking less oil because it's no longer as porous, but I've done that on boxes and it works great.

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mechanologis,

That is great information! Yes, I use the micromesh pads now up to 600 grit. This could be the answer I am looking for. I'm thinking I just need to take it beyond the 600 grit which should give me more shine. Thank you! Wonderful idea. I agree, I never thought the buffing did much.

Thank you for this great suggestion!

SQ

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Using 0000 steel wool to spread the Tongue Oil will create a slurry to fill voids and give a super smooth finish. I've seen gun stocks with 16 coats applied like that and they're like glass. I've done TO finishes using 6 coats and wax. It gives a beautiful satin finish. I suppose I could polish it further for more gloss but I really don't care for shiny wood, except for table tops.

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Myth one. Some finishes are food safe and some are not. Mineral oil is used as a laxative as I recall. Nothing to worry about using it. I read somewhere (maybe Marc) that all finishes are food safe if allowed to completely cure. The reason is that it's the solvents that tend to be toxic, not the solids that are left when the finish cures. Take a look at Marc's vid on endgrain cutting boards. He is pouring a very dilute finish into the end grain until it penetrates through to the other side. He lets it cure and that board is going to be used to cut raw food. Not that you want to, but you could use a finish that cures like a varnish and it should be safe and way more durable than just an oil finish alone. That said, there is a beauty in the way a pure oil finish goes into wood. It may not be as durable but it can look terrific. If these bowls are getting some kitchen type abuse you may want the hardness that something like a urethane gives. Shellac is nice, but in addition to issues with water, any alcohol will tend dissolve it since that is the solvent used for shellac and it is an evaporative finish. You can make up your own finishes like boiled linseed oil, paint thinner, and varnish (polyurethane)in equal proportions. The boiled linseed oil will giver the soft luster, the polyurethane the durability. The thinner will make it light enough to go on as wipe on finish. Do some research, but I think that after curing that would be perfectly safe and keep the wood from punking out from moisture if used in the kitchen. Let us know what you find out.

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BillN,

Great information! Appreciate the explanation about the solvents and what's left behind. Didn't really understand it, before now.

I've actually used mineral oil on one of the bowls and the result was a wonderful finish. It feels exceptionally good to the touch. I watched Marc's video on the end grain boards. It was amazing. I plan on watching that a dozen more times and taking notes! :) I just recently made my first cutting board out of walnut and cherry. Fortunately, I read Marc's post about not running end grains through the planer, which was my intent. I had no clue it was dangerous. I have since made my first cutting board which is a flat grain design from walnut and cherry 14" x 10" x 1". It's not perfect, but thought it was a pretty good start, for a first board. :) It has only 1 coat of mineral oil, but plan to apply several more coats. Looking forward to making boards very soon. Have every intention of making an end grain board but will NOT run it through the planer, thanks to his post.

Appreciate the information about the other finishes that might work. Any finish I've used with a shine, has been disappointing. Was never perfect enough due to brush strokes, etc. Seems it takes some practice, to get it right. :)

Thanks again for all the great information!

SQ

post-1522-062352500 1284006923_thumb.jpg

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BillN,

Great information! Appreciate the explanation about the solvents and what's left behind. Didn't really understand it, before now.

I've actually used mineral oil on one of the bowls and the result was a wonderful finish. It feels exceptionally good to the touch. I watched Marc's video on the end grain boards. It was amazing. I plan on watching that a dozen more times and taking notes! :) I just recently made my first cutting board out of walnut and cherry. Fortunately, I read Marc's post about not running end grains through the planer, which was my intent. I had no clue it was dangerous. I have since made my first cutting board which is a flat grain design from walnut and cherry 14" x 10" x 1". It's not perfect, but thought it was a pretty good start, for a first board. :) It has only 1 coat of mineral oil, but plan to apply several more coats. Looking forward to making boards very soon. Have ever intention of making an end grain board but will NOT run it through the planer, thanks to his post.

Appreciate the information about the other finishes that might work. Any finish I've used with a shine, has been disappointing. Was never perfect enough due to brush strokes, etc. Seems it takes some practice, to get it right. :)

Thanks again for all the great information!

SQ

That's a real pretty cutting board. Don't be surprised if it warps a bit after a few months to a year or so. I've heard that breadboarding the ends can help keep the warp factor down. That's the beauty of Marc's end grain board - it's almost impossible to see how it could warp since all the little "boards" are standing on end and are only an inch plus long. You should try making your own finish sometime with a very small amount of polyurethane as part of the mix. You might get to that sweet spot of protection and beauty.

Good luck!

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That's a real pretty cutting board. Don't be surprised if it warps a bit after a few months to a year or so. I've heard that breadboarding the ends can help keep the warp factor down. That's the beauty of Marc's end grain board - it's almost impossible to see how it could warp since all the little "boards" are standing on end and are only an inch plus long. You should try making your own finish sometime with a very small amount of polyurethane as part of the mix. You might get to that sweet spot of protection and beauty.

Good luck!

Thanks for the kind words about my first cutting board. What does breadboarding the ends mean? I am thinking about making more cutting boards. If there is something I can do to prevent these little rascals from warping, I would like to give it a try. I'm looking forward to trying an end grain board. End grain seem to be the lamborghini of the cutting boards.

SQ

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Thanks for the kind words about my first cutting board. What does breadboarding the ends mean? I am thinking about making more cutting boards. If there is something I can do to prevent these little rascals from warping, I would like to give it a try. I'm looking forward to trying an end grain board. End grain seem to be the lamborghini of the cutting boards.

SQ

End grain is, for all the reasons Marc points out, probably the best functional cutting board and because you can do so many things with the checkerboard pattern it is also one of the most striking. If you price one out at the store you will also find them to be more expensive because of the labor involved I suppose.

Breadboarding is where you have a piece of wood at each end of the cutting board running perpendicular to the way the rest of the board runs. In a sense it frames, on the two short ends, the rest of the wood. Since all wood cut into boards (esp plainsawn wood) wants to curl it is comparatively difficult to keep a glued up blank like a cutting board to maintain its flatness. This is even more true if the board is in and out of moisture as a cutting board is likely to be. The breadboard ends capture the long pieces and resist the warping. Breadboarding is not as simple as gluing a piece of wood on the end - that won't hold because it is an endgrain glue job - no strength. Nor can you simply do a mortise and tenon job on the end and glue to whole thing up. That won't hold due to seasonal movement of the long strips across their width. If you glued up the entire mortise and tenon you would hear a loud crack some day and the board would have broken the joint. One way to breadboard is to make a long tenon on the ends of the long sides, and create a mortise in the perpendicular end pieces to fit the tenon. Actually, probably better to create the mortise and fit the tenon to it. The real trick is how you attach it so it stays attached. One way is to drill an oversized hole in the tenon towards each end and a matching dowel hole through the mortised perpendicular end. Then put glue only an inch or so in the middle of the tenon and slide the pieces together. Finally you put a dowel through the dowel hole and only put glue on each end of the dowel by working it back and forth in the mortise part. The result is the board can move (swell and shrink) across the grain because it is only glued in the inch in the middle. The two dowels hold the ends on but don't prevent the cross grain movement. I know there are discussions and perhaps videos out there on this technique. Crossgrain movement is something you always have to think about when wood is meeting in a perpendicular fashion if the amount of wood being captured across the grain is more than about 3-4 inches. That's why a frame and panel cabinet door with real wood (not plywood) has to allow the panel to floatin the frame a lttle bit on each side. If you don't allow for the movement either the frame will break or the panel will crack. Tabletops are usually attached in a way to allow them to move through the seasons. Sorry for the long explanation, but if I simply explained breadboarding without the technique and the reason and you just did it by gluing along the whole edge you would be cursing me next winter sometime. Take a look at some of these sites. http://tnvalleywoodclub.org/Articles/Wood_Move.htm

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=141816

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Mechanologist & BillN,

Darn, I thought these flat grain boards were so easy. I thought my gluing and planing skills would get me through. Sounds like I'm going to have to take these puppies back to the drawing board. :(

I really appreciate all the information about breadboarding. This is beginning to sound a little more complicated than I originally thought. :unsure: I'm going to have to do my homework!

SQ

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Mechanologist & BillN,

Darn, I thought these flat grain boards were so easy. I thought my gluing and planing skills would get me though. Sounds like I'm going to have to take these puppies back to the drawing board. :(

I really appreciate all the information about breadboarding. This is beginning to sound a little more complicated than I originally thought. :unsure: I'm going to have to do my homework!

SQ

As my zen woodworking master once taught me - "make new mistakes."

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I use 100% tung oil which I purchase from the woodworking store as the finish on my wooden bowls that I make on a scroll saw. I take it straight out of the bottle and rub it on with a clean cloth. Let it set for a few minutes and wipe it off. I usually apply 3 coats, allowing each coat to dry before applying the next coat. Is there a secret to applying or buffing tung oil to give it more of a shine? The finish I'm getting looks adequate. From what I've read, I think the shine could be improved. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciate.

I took another bowl I made out of maple wood and used FDA approved mineral oil as the finish. I really liked the feel and look of it. Is mineral oil a good choice for bowls? I realize it does need to be replenished often. I like the fact that mineral oil doesn't change the color of the wood unlike the 100% tung oil. I purchased this wood preservative from the woodworking store. Is all mineral oil the same? Is it all FDA approved? I've heard you can buy it at the drug store. Is it the same quality as what I'm getting from the woodworking store?

I've thought about walnut oil as a finish, but have relatives that are allergic to walnuts and other nuts so have avoided trying that product. Would like to sell some of these bowls (someday) and want a product that people wouldn't be allergic to.

I have avoided shellac. From what I've read, if water gets underneath it, it's difficult to repair.

Any suggestions on wooden bowl finishes? Of course I want food safe and easy to apply. Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

If you sand the oil into the wood, it'll be smoother textured, and may change the level of shine. I just finished a walnut bench with tung oil, sanded in with 220, sanded next coat with 320, then several more coats with 400 grit. On the first few coats, I used mineral spirits to thin the tung oil; for "food safe", you'd probably want the bowl to sit for a week or two to let all of that leave the piece. For the final coat or two of mineral oil, you might try (slowly) melting beeswax into the oil, then rubbing it into the wood while the wax is still a liquid. This will further seal the piece, and allow a higher level of polish/shine than the oil alone.

Shellac doesn't work well with water, at all. Avoid.

You should watch Marc's video on finishing butcher block cutting boards. While polyurethane isn't at all safe for consumption while it's wet, once it's *completely* dry, it's FDA-approved and food safe. For a second opinion that also agrees, Flexner's book Understanding Wood Finishing. I've left cutting boards dry for a day and then *really* dry for a month before giving them out, but after a month, I'm pretty certain there's no issues left. The secret there was largely thinning the polyurethane, so that it soaks into the wood; wipe off any excess sitting on the wood, so that you don't build a film on top of the wood. With a cutting board, that film gets chopped into your food, and food safe or not, that's pretty icky. For a bowl, which won't be heavily abused (like a cutting board), a coat or two of thinned poly seems worth at least one try.

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