Nick2cd Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 So I was walking into Home Depot yesterday and noticed they had a cabinet set displayed on my way in the door. I'm in the middle of building a cabinet for my kitchen right now, so I paid close attention to the construction. My jaw almost hit the polished concrete floor when I saw how cheaply these cabinets were made. The panel in the door frame felt like it was maybe an 1/8" thick and it rattled if you just winked at it. Do people really buy these for their kitchens? Is this considered to be An acceptable quality standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 The stuff on display is pretty low end. I imagine a lot are sold to "slumlords" , student housing superintendents and low income folks. HD does sell and install very nice cabinets as well. If you stumble back to the kitchen and appliance dept you'll see the better end of things like Kraftmaid, Thomasville and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Those are called "20 foot" cabinets. Which means they look good from 20 feet away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I bought my kitchen from Home Depot, and I'm very happy with it. I got the higher end cabinets: 3/4" plywood with solid cherry doors and face frames. Nothing about it bothers my "woodworking eye". I think they were "Thomasville". I was working with a general contractor who does custom cabinet and restoration work. When it came time to talk about kitchen cabinets he just walked me into Home Depot. The two of us sat down with the Home Depot kitchen designer and worked everything out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Home Depot carries a couple lines. Their thomasville lines are a rob peter to pay paul type cabinet. If you want all plywood you get 1/2" with 3/8 backs. If you want 3/4 ply sides you get particle board elsewhere. There sysem is designed so that Home Depot can turn a profit while staying competetive. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Around here, these low-end cabinets are very popular with contractors specializing in Section 8 (low-income housing act) construction... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Around here, these low-end cabinets are very popular with contractors specializing in Section 8 (low-income housing act) construction... Most are all made by the same company. Lowes kitchen classics, Home Depot thomasville and many many others are all made by masterbrand cabinets. They all share the same spec sheets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 ==> masterbrand cabinets didn't know that -- but figures. To be profitable at such low margin, you need overhead absorption by massive volume. One big plant, many names... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick2cd Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 For the record, I wasn't implying all Home Depot cabs are junk. Their kitchen displays in the back of the store actually look really good. I just couldn't believe the build quality of their value line. These cabinets looked like they would collapse under their own weight if wall hung. I can certainly see this line appealing to landlords of student housing. That makes perfect sense. They probably have to replace them every couple years anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmykx250 Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 I shopped them as well and actually did the layout with one of their kitchen designers. I ended up getting cold feet and went to KDA. And I have to say with all honesty I ended up unhappy with the KDA cabinets. They must be selling on a reputation they built years ago because the quality just isnt there any more. (one of the reasons i was glad i moved) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 For the record, I wasn't implying all Home Depot cabs are junk. Their kitchen displays in the back of the store actually look really good. I just couldn't believe the build quality of their value line. These cabinets looked like they would collapse under their own weight if wall hung. I can certainly see this line appealing to landlords of student housing. That makes perfect sense. They probably have to replace them every couple years anyways. Home Depot or Lowes doesnt have a cabinet that meets even the lowest of AWI standards. But with the way the economy has gone that is just the way it has to be. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick2cd Posted January 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Home Depot or Lowes doesnt have a cabinet that meets even the lowest of AWI standards. But with the way the economy has gone that is just the way it has to be. Don What is AWI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 What is AWI? Architectural woodwork instutute. They set the standards for all cabinets and millwork. It used to be that everyone built to this standard. Times have changed. Today if you want to build for government at any level or even goverment sub housing you have to build to these standards. Any decent contractor also buys by AWI standards. You have three choices premium, custom and economy. Economy standard is pretty low but not near as low as mass produced big box cabinets. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffster Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 They would make nice garage cabinets! Okay, you might have to strengthen them a little. : )> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 For the record, I wasn't implying all Home Depot cabs are junk. Their kitchen displays in the back of the store actually look really good. I just couldn't believe the build quality of their value line. These cabinets looked like they would collapse under their own weight if wall hung. I can certainly see this line appealing to landlords of student housing. That makes perfect sense. They probably have to replace them every couple years anyways. It seems the word "value" is now a red flag in our society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 I have found that designers and architects will require AWI standards and state " field verify all dimensions" just to cover their ass. If you build what they actually specify it won't meet the AWI standards. If you measure the site there is less than 12 ft and they have designed 13 ft of cabinets and appliances to fit in the space. They make you submit drawings and propose how to fix the problem they created. AWI standards are fine but how they are used is a farce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimV Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 I used Home Depot and Lowes when I BUILT my kitchen cabinets. I used them to look at ideas and to get a catalog of Kraftmaid and others to get dimensions and concepts. Nothing else in my custom cabinets were the same as what you would buy there. Just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 ==> It seems the word "value" is now a red flag in our society. That's an excellent point... I have been re-tooling my shop over the past year and have seen the difference in build-quality/value-creep. Mfg's are selling to a price-point and relocating production/value-engineering/etc their offerings to get there... It's come down to to a market where you purchase 'premium' products to get what many would call an 'acceptable' quality level. Since I began my shop retrofit, I simply stay away from anything with 'value' in the title/description... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 I have found that designers and architects will require AWI standards and state " field verify all dimensions" just to cover their ass. If you build what they actually specify it won't meet the AWI standards. If you measure the site there is less than 12 ft and they have designed 13 ft of cabinets and appliances to fit in the space. They make you submit drawings and propose how to fix the problem they created. AWI standards are fine but how they are used is a farce. Thats just bureaucratic BS. The commercial and governmental work state AWI standards, not residential. All AWI dimensional specs are unless specified. The property owner can waive dimensional specs to fit the room or wall. With governmental agencies this is a little difficult because you can never seem to find the guy with the authority to make the authorization, with a homeowner its simple (sign here or your cabinets wont fit). Its not really an AWI issue its a business issue and the need for everyone to want to get their upcharge. Personally I dont do on site inspections or installs so its easy, if they dont fit its your problem. I do however have a seperate entity for installation in residential where I use contractors for on site work, but rely on the designer to have done the onsite inpection. If they dont do it its not my problem. Most designers are just click and drop designers so they dont deviate specifications. They may send over a design for a 7/0 wall that is really a 6/6 wall. This is where the cabinet guy calls BS and hits them with a 30% upcharge. In reality its just a matter of rescaling your shop drawing. The upcharge is for any non standard and should be anyway you look at it. If I have to build a cabinet 29.5 wide then its going to cost you an additional 30%. Ive got all dimenstion presets set up with fixed stops on all my equipment so I dont need to measure or even think about. If I cant use presets your going to pay, just the way it is and should be. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 ==> It seems the word "value" is now a red flag in our society. That's an excellent point... I have been re-tooling my shop over the past year and have seen the difference in build-quality/value-creep. Mfg's are selling to a price-point and relocating production/value-engineering/etc their offerings to get there... It's come down to to a market where you purchase 'premium' products to get what many would call an 'acceptable' quality level. Since I began my shop retrofit, I simply stay away from anything with 'value' in the title/description... Melamine is the future, no way around it. If shops don't change with the demand they die. This of course doesnt mean you have to build junk. You don't have to use 16mm or 1/2 panels when you should be using 3/4. This doesn't mean your slab door should be 100% mdf when they should be staved. There is a middle ground in there somewhere nor does it mean you cant offer plywood. Its truly a shame that the younger generations dont know what quality really is but those are the generations that are buying our work so it is what it is. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 ==> Its truly a shame that the younger generations dont know what quality really is but those are the generations that are buying our work so it is what it is. There’s a certain amount of truth to that… You have to follow your market… But I've always been suspicious of the stance and wonder if every generation carries that bias… At some level, all generations learn about quality – it may take time – after all, we survived the ‘70s… It may take a decade, but it happens… Case in point... About a month ago, my wife and saw a rerun of a brand new home-improvement show on PBS – something about 'old houses'… There was this new guy wearing a paisley shirt, bell-bottoms, a belt buckle that Elvis would be proud to own, a face full of hair and sporting an enormous afro (Bob Vila as ‘70s porn star)… He was introducing the world the kitchen of the future… what every forward-looking contractor was going to install… timeless… dark oak cabinetry (MDF carcass), sunset orange melamine counter, sea foam backsplash (appliance faces to match), etc, etc... Each 'feature' more hideous then the last... It was the most appalling décor one could imagine – yet they were built/installed by the millions… And renovated out of existence some 10 years later… As a side note: I’ve always wondered if that particular décor was some sort of post-boom make-work conspiracy perpetuated by the building industry – convince millions of Americans to install what, in retrospect, was arguably civilization's all-time low for interior decoration then convince the same millions to rip-it-out less than a decade later… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted January 25, 2013 Report Share Posted January 25, 2013 He was introducing the world the kitchen of the future… what every forward-looking contractor was going to install… timeless… dark oak cabinetry (MDF carcass), sunset orange melamine counter, sea foam backsplash (appliance faces to match), etc, etc... Each 'feature' more hideous then the last... It was the most appalling décor one could imagine – yet they were built/installed by the millions… And renovated out of existence some 10 years later…ior decoration then convince the same millions to rip-it-out less than a decade later… I love seeing that stuff in "Bob Newhart", "Mary Tyler Moore", and "Brady Bunch" reruns!Two other points...- The decorating and remodeling industry would die if stuff didn't come in and out of style. On one hand it's bad, on another, it's good!- I also enjoy seeing actual people interact in an office on those shows. I see my boss once a year, and my employees less than that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpf1182 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 There are only a few cabinet manufacturers in the US and they just ship to retailers under different names. That said, you can get a low or high end cabinet. The high end cabinets, though not what a woodworker would build, are decent and have a good finish. The only way to escape is to have custom made cabinets. And how many people can afford to buy them? Not your average person, I am sure. The Home Depot kitchen cabinets we installed about 8 years ago are in great shape and still look and function extremely well. Not custom made but more than adequate. You get what you pay for but what we purchased was a good value and we are very pleased. Although I build furniture for my home I didn't want to invest the time to make kitchen cabinets....I much more enjoy making furniture that can be displayed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghetto Abbey Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I built some desks and a reception counter for a large auto body shop, and they purchased cabinets for the waitin room from one of the box stores. They were cherry with mitered doors. Looked nice, but I am not a fan of mitered doors durability. They asked me if I would be willing to install them. No problem. Three uppers centered on a wall with three matching base cabinets. The cabinets were so flimsy that if you just attached through the nailers into the studs at the 16" intervals the outside edge of the upper furthest away from the stud would droop away from the wall. It was like trying to screw an overcooked lasagna noodle to the wall. They got what they paid for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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