WoodCraft Deleting Bad Reviews

[RJsumthn]

A couple weeks ago I bought a WoodRiver combo square and it wasn't square so I wrote a review about it on the Woodcraft website. Last week I got an e-mail from WoodCraft saying they would like to send me a new square free of charge. GREAT!! I got the new square in the mail today and I check to ensure it was square which it was. Then I went back to the Woodcraft website to update my review and the review was gone!!! I give major props to Woodcrafts customer service but them deleting my original review just doesn't sit right with me. I mean how many other reviews have they deleting? What good are the reviews if they only keep the good ones!?!? I did post another review saying what had happened but I still don't like the fact that they deleted the first review. What do you guys think about it?

[wdwerker]

Bad way to do business! I like to see negative reviews with a positive customer service response, that tells me that they actually keep their promises.

[duckkisser]

ditto what wdwerker said the negatives often give me information that i cant get from the positives.  positives usually say things like i have only used it twice but both times this year worked great. that does not help me i need to know that it worked for the first 500 uses then broke or that it came missing a knob and had to order it but that it came first class 2 days later that tells me that they do make mistakes but they try to fix them the best they can.  if a company like woodcraft does not support their tools then how do we know that they sell a quality tool. 

[chicks82]

I actually look at the 1-2 star reviews before I look at the 4-5 star reviews.

[STL Woodguy]

Well, off the bat some people can be a bunch of herp derps in review sections on the internet, running to the one star / most negative rating without being objective and sometimes it being clear user error or exaggeration. Like a guy on Amazon who rated the TS55 one star and did just about every dopey thing in the book. On Google, someone slammed a local hardwood dealer (a good place) just because "they didn't greet her when she entered the store," which is ridiculous. Or look at reviews on Yelp or iTunes, those are highly amusing. So personally, in those situations I am for deleting useless reviews if they show no objectivity or reason for low ratings.

 

On the other hand, deleting 'detailed' negative reviews is concerning...and considering WoodCraft's 'interest' in WoodRiver, that's all the more curious. If they're going to do that, might as well just make it easier on themselves and not have reviews in the first place.

[pghmyn]

I remember watching a documentary about hotels and their reviews online. It is statistically proven that the 2-3 (sometimes 4) star reviews are your most accurate baseline for a real answer. Other competitors and people who do not like the brand chain for whatever reason will purposely post a bad review in order to deter customers. On the other hand, there were people paid to write 5 star reviews about the hotel, all in the name of the customer again.

[dwacker]

I would side with woodcraft here. Posting a review prior to giving them a chance to make it right is not fair. Everybody gets a defect now and again. Review happy people are what make Internet reviews worthless. I understand the intention was to update the review but you can't expect them to know your intentions.

Companies like yelp are extortionist and nothing more. If you don't pay them they delete good reviews. Once they figure out that people are searching their data for your business they contact you and want to sell you service. Decline and all your good reviews disappear.

Don

[mds2]

Don, I disagree.  If I am going to purchase a product I want to know if others have had problems with it.  Yeah there are defects and that speaks to the quality of manufacturing.  I wouldnt want to buy the same product and get a defect too.

 

That being said, I have always had great customer service from  Woodcraft.  Really the best of any company I have dealt with.  They have always been willing to go above and beyond when I have talked to them. 

[thewoodwhisperer]

Keep in mind that in some cases, giving a bad review is the only way to get a reasonable response from a company. I can think of several times a bad Tweet generated a better customer service response than actually calling the company. 

 

Product reviews are faulted, for sure, but by having them on your website I think there's at least some moral obligation to letting all legitimate reviews post to the site. You have to be willing to take the good with the bad. And if you're not willing to do that, then you need to disable the feature. 

[dwacker]

Don, I disagree.  If I am going to purchase a product I want to know if others have had problems with it.  Yeah there are defects and that speaks to the quality of manufacturing.  I wouldnt want to buy the same product and get a defect too.

 

That being said, I have always had great customer service from  Woodcraft.  Really the best of any company I have dealt with.  They have always been willing to go above and beyond when I have talked to them. 

The problem is jumping the gun not the review. If you give the company a chance then post you're writing a fair review. If you don't give them a chance you're not being fair.

Its ok to say. "It's an ok product, the first one I got was defective. Woodcraft took care of the issue". It not ok to say " product is junk, I'll wait to see if woodcraft sends me a good one"

Why not wait. What good are you doing writing a bad review. You're not being honest. That would be nothing more than an unqualified review, that may cost a company money and prevent someone from buy what may be a great product.

Don

[Chris H]

Unfortunately, "managing" online reviews is big business.  In the end, the consumer is being manipulated.  The website and it's content are the property of the retailer.

 

If you are going to get reviews, it's best to try and get them from a trusted independent site.  (That's just one of the many great things about sites like this one!)

[sjeff70]

I wish there were only USA made products available.  

Unfortunately it's not about the customer, it's about the bottom line.

Oh well, what can one person do.  

 

It's impossible to run a successful company that operates contrary to typical outsourcing as is done today.  

At least the people responsible for putting out crap have no choice but to buy crap just like the rest of us.

It's not like our Congress.

 

 

 

[calmari]

The problem is jumping the gun not the review. If you give the company a chance then post you're writing a fair review. If you don't give them a chance you're not being fair.

Its ok to say. "It's an ok product, the first one I got was defective. Woodcraft took care of the issue". It not ok to say " product is junk, I'll wait to see if woodcraft sends me a good one"

Why not wait. What good are you doing writing a bad review. You're not being honest. That would be nothing more than an unqualified review, that may cost a company money and prevent someone from buy what may be a great product.

Don

 

It depends on what the review is about.  There are a lot of situations where the review can highlight a weakness in the company, like the thread about the jointer from Grizzly with the warped fence, etc.  To me that points out a failure in their QA process and as a consumer I want to know those things.  The fact that they 'made it right' later doesn't change the fact that they shipped a product that was missing parts and defective.

 

Awhile back I ordered a replacement charger for a laptop off of Amazon.  It was listed as 'new'.  When I got it, it could tell right off that it was not in fact, new...because of the partially melted case on the rectifier section.  It was refurbished, not new, and it failed after a couple of hours of use.  Even before it failed I planned to give it a bad review simply because the product was misrepresented in the post.  No amount of customer service post-order will change that fact.  So I posted my negative review and was quickly contacted by the seller, who wanted me to delete my review and offered me a replacement.  I took the replacement (which was also refurbished, btw) and let my review stand.

 

A month or so ago I ordered a circle/ellipse router jig from Rockler.  The product information listed max cutting dimensions but no minimums.  I received it and found out immediately that it wouldn't make a circle smaller than about 9" diameter.  Had I known that I would not have ordered it in the first place, so I posted a negative review highlighting the lack of minimum specs and the limitations of the jig.

 

Point being that even if you do contact the company and receive some sort of relief, it doesn't change the fact that there was a problem in the first place.

[Nowicki20]

Deleting reviews is bad for business. I don't think you necessarily have to give them a chance to post a review. If the product is defective, it defective. Your not paying for (or rating) the customer service, your paying for (and rating) the product. You could have the best customer service in the world, but that won't help my square up my carcase!

[sjeff70]

Not buying, customer reviews and word of mouth is the only recourse I have as a customer.  

Advertising and commercialism is deceptive, and fosters a me against company attitude.

Once you buy something it's an unhealthy relationship right from the start!

 

I needed a minor siding repair after a bad storm this past summer.  I called the company to make good on their warranty and they said they had changed ownership via bankruptcy, so weren't obligated.  But they were allowed to keep their name.  They'd been in business since the 1920s.  My point here is, that in this case at least, even the laws favor the company. 

 

I always warn others and give a product review wherever possible.  Good reviews are just as important.  

Always be honest...be careful not to step in the same crap they tried with you.   

[Chris H]

I agree that manipulating posts is bad form, but I wonder, what made us think they were some how sacred to start with?  Reviews have always been paid for and sponsored by the hosting site. 

 

I don't disagree with those upset or at least disappointed, but I ask myself why I would expect any different.

[Byrdie]

The only problem I have with what Woodcraft did was that they didn't ask you if it would be ok to delete your review after they had remedied the problem.  

 

I've written a few reviews on products and I've always waited until I had a chance to use the product for awhile so that I knew what I was talking about.  In the case of a defective product, I've also given the manufacturer the benefit of the doubt and an opportunity to fix it before I wrote a review.  Occasionally things don't go perfectly or a piece gets by quality control and I don't think it's fair to the manufacturer to cast doubt on all their products if my example isn't necessarily true of all of them.

 

Additionally I've seen bad reviews written where a product didn't meet the consumers expectations for use and I have to question in some cases whether it's the product that deserved the bad review or the consumers expectations.  Finally I've seen bad reviews written on some products where, when close attention was paid, it was clear that the buyer wasn't using the product correctly or hadn't followed the instructions.  Clearly not the case in the OP's example but I do have concern about a review having been written on a defective product rather than the seller being given an opportunity to remedy the situation.  Especially when after Woodcraft sent a replacement item it was free of defect.  I can see where, in that case, Woodcraft may have felt the negative review was unwarranted.  I just think they should've asked first or let you know that if you didn't amend your review that they would delete it.

[RJsumthn]

In the original review I posted, I mentioned that it was probably a lemon and that I would exchange it for a new one with expectations of the new one being square. I was not trying to bash WoodCraft or WoodRiver products I just wanted to put my experience out there. 

[Frank Speyerer]

"Deleting reviews is bad for business."

I had my house painted/sprayed with a surface that the painting contractor guaranteed me that "I would never have to  paint my house again". After three years the paint/liquid siding began to peel and I called the original contractor, who was still in the business of selling "lifetime paint jobs" he told me that the company that supplied the original paint was no longer in business and there was no longer a lifetime warranty, but he would be willing to repaint my house with the new product at a new cost, of course. I wrote a negative review on a web site which was deleted. So I guess bad reviews are bad for business

[Jfitz]

I didn't know that about Yelp - explains why a review I wrote about a local company, along with those from other customers who had similar issues, suddenly disappeared from Yelp.

Don - I'll have to disagree with you that you need to wait for the company to try to "make good" before posting a review. However, I think the reviewer does have a duty to not only keep the review objective (i..e. don't just claim the company stinks), but also to go back and give a rating and comments reflecting the entire experience. I could easily see myself chaining a 1- or 2- star review into a 4 or 5, especially if the company took care of business and made things right. Kudos to WC for replacing the item (it's not really any skin off their nose since they just return it to their supplier) but shame on them for deleting the review before giving the reviewer a chance to update it.

[Jeremyeverydayblades]

I ordered a belt grinder from woodcraft weeks ago. Never got any confirmation that it shipped. I emailed them three times I got three emails back saying they were too busy to respond. I called them multiple times set on hold forever. Finally several weeks after I ordered this item I got a hold of someone at woodcraft. They said they would contact the manufacturer and tell them not to ship the item. So this means they are drop shipping everything they sell. I would not advise doing business with any company who drop ships from the manufacture. Horrible company stay away from them. 

[JohnG]

44 minutes ago, Jeremyeverydayblades said:

I ordered a belt grinder from woodcraft weeks ago. Never got any confirmation that it shipped. I emailed them three times I got three emails back saying they were too busy to respond. I called them multiple times set on hold forever. Finally several weeks after I ordered this item I got a hold of someone at woodcraft. They said they would contact the manufacturer and tell them not to ship the item. So this means they are drop shipping everything they sell. I would not advise doing business with any company who drop ships from the manufacture. Horrible company stay away from them. 

That is an unfortunate situation that you encountered. However, given that the supply chain for most markets and most countries is still severely broken, it’s not too surprising. Woodcraft should have done a better job communicating your order status. Customer service has definitely taken a hit across the board over the past year. 

How do you figure that since they are drop shipping one single line item order to you that they are “drop shipping everything they sell?” 

And maybe you don’t realize how common it is for companies to drop ship certain orders or certain items. You will have a hard time online shopping if you refuse to do business with any company that drop ships some orders. 

Good luck. 

[Chestnut]

From my experience most if not all woodworking companies drop ship tools. It streamlines a lot of their product fulfillment especially during a time when inventories are being decimated by supply chain issues due to covid. Why would i want to pay for shipping to Woodcraft/rockler/acme/etc. and then pay for shipping again to my door? Most of these tools are arriving at woodcraft from a ups truck anyway, skip woodcraft and have it come strait to me.

[Chet]

Drop shipping is as old as the Sear's Catalog.  Drop shipping was taking place before Jeff Bezos was born.  Drew is right things would be a lot more expensive if they had to be shipped to the retailer and then you.  There is know way that a retailer could have everything on hand that they offer online.

Yea the customer service you received isn't good but that is also something that has been hit by Covid.  All these places are dealing with big increases of online sales, which creates more customer inquires, which slows down the response times.  Unfortunately too, you can add the fact that we have become a pretty impatient society.

[drzaius]

2 hours ago, Jeremyeverydayblades said:

I would not advise doing business with any company who drop ships from the manufacture.

That is going to severely limit shopping choices. Drop shipping from the manufacturer is very common & there's nothing wrong with it. Why incur the extra cost of shipping from manufacturer to seller to end user. And no matter what they say about free shipping, it is the end user that pays.