Absolute beginner, becoming frustrated


BDY33

Recommended Posts

Hi BD - welcome to the forum! No bashing here, so don't worry. In fact, the amount of experience and levels of helpfullness here are staggering! There is a lot of good advice above, and I hope it helps you get through your (hopefully temporary) frustration.

I won't suggest or point out specific tools you should get, but I will encourage you to think about the different methods that can be used to accomplish the same task. Sometimes certain tools just make it go easier (or must make them seem easier). A track saw is great, but you can always use a circ saw with a good blade and a shop made guide. A jointer is great to have, but a planer or router can do double duty as a jointer with the right jig. To Shannon's point, an air cleaner is great but a good respirator will keep your lungs clean. Jerry's advice about looking for other local woodworkers is solid - learn from others' experience before you rush out and buy all sorts of tools.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lots of good advice here, so I'm just going to throw mine in on top.

 

Dust collection: shop vac, then respirator.  You don't need a dust collector until you get a jointer and/or planer.  You don't really need an air filter, but they can be nice to run after you're done working to get the hanging dust out of the air.  The box fan / furnace filter works fine.

 

Wood: Just have your hardwood dealer resaw, joint, and plane your wood for now.  When you start using enough wood that the jointer and planer (and maybe bandsaw for resawing) would pay for themselves, then buy them.  If you ever get there - many people don't.

 

Tools:  Lots of people say, "buy once", and there's a lot of wisdom in that.  It can be frustrating to use a tool which won't hold a setting or make an accurate cut.  But there are two problems with that:  One, when you are starting out you don't know what tools you will need, or what features are important.  Two, there's probably no one on this forum who spent thousands of dollars on tools, and then found that they really didn't like wood working as much as they thought.  Those folks are in the photography forums or whatever they decided to do next.  Most people didn't buy once, and, since they stuck with woodworking long enough to go through several rounds of upgrades, now they wish they had started with the tool they have now.

 

You can do a lot with a circular saw and a router, if you have enough clamps and spend the time to make jigs, guides, and do test cuts.

 

I don't recommend buying a lot of tools at once.  Then you have to set up, tune and calibrate all the tools before you can do any woodworking, and for me it becomes a chore.  Better to work with your basic tools, and for a special project say, "for this project, I'd really like to have a XXXXXXX".  Then, buy whatever it is and you've got an immediate use for it so you can set it up and "bond with it".  

 

Finally, look into alternatives.  In Philly there's a woodworking shop that you can buy into.  They provide a wide array of top end tools, dust collection, and a shop with spray booth, etc, etc.  Even if money was no object it would take years to put together a shop like that.  So, by becoming a member you can get right to work on real projects, without having to spend time buying tools and designing your shop.  Sure, it would be less expensive to own your own tools - IF you do a lot of woodworking for many years.  Also, when people are first starting out there's often a "is this problem caused by my technique, or the tool, or both?"  You can save a lot of time and frustration if you are using a tool that was set up and maintained by an experienced wood worker, and if someone with more experience can give it a look.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

==> I've read that all those green tools were magic and the ts55 will change your life forever.

i don't know about changing my life, but the Domino, DominoXL and TS-55 have certainly changed my workflow.  Equally, the CT-UDD-BoomArm has changed my approach to sanding...  That's pretty good for one company...

 

As for the OP... One of the best first tools is Chris Schwartz, "The Anarchist Toolbox".  Great text that directly addresses tool procurement...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember when I was getting into woodworking I had it all but I had nothing!  I bought a junky $75 table saw,a cheap router, a sander, and the odds-n-end home improvement tools like jig saw, skill saw, and a few clamps-I was up and going. Did the quality hold me back, not really, it takes longer because trusting your fences and such is not happening but spinning motors with sharp metal attached removes wood. I am in the "buy the best tool you can afford" camp now but to tell you the truth after thinking back when reading your post I sure had fun in those first years! I ended up replacing all those tools a long time ago but it truly makes me appreciate the quality tools I have now a lot more-and the projects, well a few of them still have their place in our home and you would never know what they were built with.

 

Dust collection, I have a nice system that works great and is ducted all around to each tool, you can get the same result (better actually because the loss of effectiveness due to the duct runs) by having a DC like the HF and hooking it up to the tool your using. In the end there are still going to be a lot of times you still need your respirator so hold on to that!

 

The others I would just keep watching on Craigslist and such as you save your pennies. There are a lot of people that have either been doing it for a while now and want to upgrade or that have had enough and are throwing in the towel (yep there are strange people out there!) My order for the big 4 was table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw. You can do a lot of the same things with a bandsaw and table saw so that choice is yours as to which comes first. The nice thing about the TS is with the jigs you can make can also take the place of several other tools. There are also hand tools, I went about 10yrs before getting into hand tools and they have sure changed the way I work, that is something you may or may not want to consider.  It is a long road but it is also a long fun road. I guess my main advise is to keep your eye on your next project and not the finish line, the buy accordingly- and have fun! Please keep us posted and never be afraid of asking questions, if its important to you its important to us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know about the magic but the TS-55 changed my life forever. Of course I wouldn't recommend it to any one just entering the hobby even if they could afford it. I'm a firm believer in learning the hard way and then buying things to make your life easier..

I was only joking around about festool. I don't agree with learning the hard way . IMO a ts55, mft, shop vac (nonfes), dowel max or jesum, any brand plunge router, ro sander would be a good start. I wouldn't invest in tools that I thought I would need to replace down the road. If your going to pay to have lumber milled s4s then the festool system is perfect for the beginner. Decent tools, easy to use and more affordable than they look on the surface. I would do the Jessum or dowel max long before the domino either will do more than the domino for less money.

Don

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to repeat what duck said earlier. The most important tool you will buy is one you actually need.

 

Which tool is that? Well, that depends on what you want to make. It can't be emphasized enough that thinking about that first will help immensely, especially on a tight budget.

 

I have been doing a ton of turning over the last 6-8 months and I rarely touch my table saw. Just today, I bought a little bench top bandsaw to supplement my big powermatic. I plan on using it for small cuts on small pieces and the big boy is for big pieces and resawing. I still have a contractor's table saw. The point is rather than dropping $3k on a "real" table saw, just to have it, I got a much more inexpensive tool that is going to speed up and compliment my work flow.

 

 

Good luck! And we are all here to help and are all at different points along the woodworking path. No matter how odd the question, someone is probably asking the same thing or has just finished getting over that hump.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you don't want to spend the money on a particular power tool, as well as giving up, you have the following choices...

 

a) rent or borrow the tool.

    - a good choice for a one-off if you know someone with the tool.

 

b ) outsource to a pro.

   - many people have already said this: start out by buying your lumber S2S and milled to thickness. No need for jointer and planer then.

 

c) use a different technique (with a different tool that you already own) to get the same result.

   - eg. There are many ways to cut a tenon, some may be easier than others, but you may already have a tool that will do it.

 

d) redesign the project so it doesn't need that tool.

   - modifying plans to fit your own individuality is a big part of the game. If you don't feel your skills/tools are up to including something, then find a way to leave it out.

 

e) use hand tools

   - In general, my preferred choice.

 

> with the exception of the hardcore handmade guys

 

Don't fear hand-tools - Hardcore is for the guys who start their woodwork by chopping down a tree with an axe. There's nothing hardcore about including a few hand-tools into your work. Until very recently amateurs like us would buy power-tools to help with their hand-tool work, not the other way around.  A few hand-tools would seem to address a lot of your worries:

 

> So, $1000 and pretty much cramped into my 1/3 of the 2 car garage, doable. But I guess I am going to need an air solution

 

If you avoid the pricier brands initially, $1000 buys quite an extensive array of hand-tools, and much more than you need to get started. Including my bench I work and keep everything in 1/4 of a 1 car garage. And a dustpan and brush takes care of most of my dust and shavings.

 

I suggest you decide on a project to build, post your ideas here, and people will help you work out how to do it with an appropriate addition (power or hand) to the tools you already have.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My simple advice is to start with a decent quality table saw. You mentioned a $500 dewalt or Bosch table saw. If I am correct I would characterize those as job site table saws. Usually direct drive with universal motors. If you live in a large metro area, I would spend that.$500 on a used contractor saw with cast iron top, belt drive induction motor. Check Craig's list. I sold my delta 34-444 a few years back with a 36" beismeyer fence for $250. I used that saw for years a produced some really cool stuff. With a solid table saw, you can do all kinds of joinery, can do limited resawing, edge jointing, and you can make all kinds of shop made jigs and accessories.

Start there and build. Remember you don't need to buy new. Spend a few months shopping for used. You may get more bang for your buck.

My 2 cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've tried, with varying amounts of success, to remember a couple of rules of thumb for frugal woodworking.

 

1. Safety first, which means securing your work even if it's only one cut.  Protect your lungs with respiratory protection at the minimum.  Make sure your shop is fire wise.

 

2. While classes seem expensive, they can jump start your abilities by exposing you to ideas and solutions that you would take a long time to acquire on your own.  Also you can get exposure to better quality tools that will help inform your own buying decisions from an informed position.

 

3. Only buy tools when you need them for a specific job, not because you "might need it some day", or read about it in an article, or "everyone says that's what I need to buy".  That said, sometimes the only justification you need for a tool is it intrigues you.

 

4. You will save money over the long term by buying quality tools instead of the cheapest tool you can afford.  The caveat is if the quality tool isn't in your budget then buy the best tool you can or know you're buying a disposable object that will be replaced and purchase accordingly.

 

5. Home center wood is expensive and average to low quality and should be avoided whenever possible. That said, some quality work can be made with pre-dimensioned lumber, but you'll have to be picky.  You'll save money in the long run by getting the equipment to dimension your own lumber, and you'll free yourself from the restrictions of default lumber sizes.

 

Some other thoughts specific to your post:

 

If you can wait on a table saw until you can afford a cabinet saw you'll be happier in the long run.  I bought a table saw first, probably one of the ones you're looking at, a Bosch 4100.  It's a good saw but there are some inherent compromises that you need to know about.  In my opinion, it's not heavy or large enough to safely cut full sheets of plywood.  And the aluminum table will limit being able to use magnetic jigs in the future.  The width of cut is good, but to get there you have to extend the fence out from the table so you don't have much support on that edge.  There are a couple of things you can do to overcome this, build a work surface that the saw is inset into, increasing the ability to handle sheet goods  maybe with an aftermarket fence attached.  Get a quality thin kerf blade to maximize the power available.  Consider another solution for sheet goods  like breaking it down first with a circular saw and straight edge, then make a finish cut with the TS, or go with a track saw and do finish cuts with it.

 

Consider a bandsaw for a first major tool purchase instead.  The three basic things a table saw allow you to do is cut things square, allow accurate repeat cuts, and cut dadoes and grooves.  A well tuned bandsaw with the quality  blade will allow you to do the first two, and a router will take care of the last one, add in a straight edge for your circular saw and you can handle sheet goods.  Additionally, the right bandsaw will allow you to resaw lumber for your own veneers and with a smaller blade will allow you to cut curves.

 

Stay away from the benchtop combination jointer/planers.  There's not enough weight and metal in them to maintain accuracy.  I had the Jet 10" combo that you're looking at, and found it very frustrating.  I sold it and ponied up for a full sized 12" combo and am much happier.  I suspect that's not an option for your budget. but you can get a lunchbox planer so you can adjust thickness.  No point in thickness planing an unjointed board but there are sleds you can make for a planer that allow you to level the board so you can get that jointed face.  After you get that face you can flip the board and get the other side co-planar   Take that board to a table saw or bandsaw and make use a miter sled to make a straight edge and you've duplicated the functions of a jointer.

 

Some kind of dust collection will be useful not only for respiratory protection, but to keep dust from covering every available surface in the garage.

 

You've already started off the right way, by asking questions.  Welcome to woodworking and I'm looking forward to seeing the stuff you make.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was in a similar situation as you a little more than a year ago.  I had some typical homeowner tools I had purchased over the years (circular saw, jig saw, drills, belt sander, etc.) and really wanted to get into furniture design and building.  I looked at table saws, jointers, planers, bandsaws, and router tables.  That led to evaluating dust collection systems and air filters.  It got to the point that I had so much info floating around in my head that I couldn't make a decision, and I ended up lurking in forums for months and not doing any actual wood working!  I don't know exactly what broke the dam, but I finally decided to start small (and cheap) with a few used hand tools.  I got on ebay and over several months accumulated some old Stanley bench planes (5 & 6), a dovetail saw, course rip and crosscut panel saws, and a fine crosscut panel saw all for between $200 and $300.  I learned to tune the planes and sharpen my own saws (with help from Paul Sellers and Bob Rozaieski).  With these tools I was able to work on my technique by building shop fixtures and appliances all without the need for any kind of dust collection.  while working on these shop projects, I began to see what other tools might be useful.  Over the last year I've acquired a lunch box planer, a bandsaw, and a dust collector as well as a cabinet full of specialty planes and back saws.  One thing I've noticed, is that I really don't use the machines very often.  I'll probably get an 8" jointer down the road, but I don't think I'll ever get a table saw.  I guess the point to all this rambling is that you don't need a fully outfitted shop to start woodworking.  Start small, get your feet wet, and follow the path that you find most interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many of us have been there, tool-wise. I've been woodworking for decades and still don't have all the tools I need. The 3 things that influenced me the most as a woodworker in no particular order .... Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking, Roy Underhill, and an article I read many years ago about a man in Mexico who couldn't afford any tools but he built a tablesaw from discarded pallets, a washing machine motor, and other scavenged parts and was making furniture far better than anything I've ever built. Point being the skill and creativity are in the person, not in the machine. Don't get caught up because you can't do something the way someone else does it, focus on what you can do.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the subject of tools, and learning things the hard way... think about the phrase "a good artist never blames his tools." The downside of being an art major is that you get stuff like that thrown at you. A lot. To a degree it's true: a good artist, or even a semi-competent one will figure out a way around most lacking tools. In my case, I was learning Photoshop, or using oil paints for the first time. There are many ways a practiced artist can get around those medium's shortcomings.

 

It's the same for woodworking. A competent woodworker can deal with a tablesaw that isn't great through various other tools or techniques, but you're just learning. Hell, I'm still "just learning". I think it's important to get a tool that nails the basics first. If I was "getting my last tool first" I'd get a 5hp Sawstop. But, I'd have to be insane to buy a massive, multi-thousand dollar cabinet saw while still learning a hobby. I think the trick is to buy something that doesn't suck. The good way to "do something the hard way" is to have to do each step yourself with careful attention to detail, or to work around a feature your tool doesn't have. A bad way to "do something the hard way" is to try to repair constant mistakes brought on by the basic poor design of a tool (i.e. a tablesaw that doesn't cut square to the fence.)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really not much I can add here.  Pretty much the fundamentals have been covered.  But I like to talk so here's a couple points that might've been missed:

 

Don't plan the project around the tools you have.  Instead, pick the project and then problem solve how you can do it with what's available to you.  If all you have available is big box lumber then figure out if you can work with that.  Perhaps you could call your first projects "prototypes" and practice pieces.  Don't have a table saw?  Figure out how to make jigs and fixtures that allow your circular saw, chisels and router do the same work.  I'd bet the tools you have and perhaps a couple inexpensive hand tools could do pretty much everything you come across.  Perhaps more slowly but with every bit the precision of more expensive tools.

 

There's nothing wrong with good used tools!  Key word may be "good" and there may be a bit of a learning curve there but that's where I would start.  I wish that option had been better available when I first started investing in my tools.

 

Dust collection?  Shop vacs?  Yeah, I have them, I even have 2 shop vacs.  Funny how infrequently I use them.  It's amazing what a good shop broom, dust pan and bucket can do!  I agree that a good respirator is a good investment but good common sense goes a long way in helping with that as well.

 

The most important thing is not to let your lack of possessions inhibit your desire to try and to create.  For me the most important part of woodworking has been engaging the brain to problem solve, to develop the creative process and to challenge myself.  Nothing kicks ass more than to be able to step back and say, "*I* did that!!" and be proud of it, flaws and all!

 

And stick with this group.  They're honest to a fault, giving, and a great source.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi BDY33

 

I'm also in your position and I agree with all of the other post. Keep your head up and take your time and buy the basic tools you need to get started. In time and after a few sold projects you will be able to upgrade your equipment.


 

I have watched most of Wood Whisperer's pod cast and I'm so motivated to just get going and not to worry about expensive tools. I'm also blessed to be located within driving distance to a woodworking school (http://www.homesteadheritage-woodworking.com/index.html).


I have taken the Joinery I & II classes and I can tell you based on what I have learned you can do many things with basic tools just a bit slower but that's the woodworking journey in my opinion.



 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mark,

 

I personally greatly appreciate your limited tool series as an inspirational "I can do that" start.  Gives hope to folks like the OP and myself (the latter still trying to "build Rome in a day").  

I would be even more appreciative if you could go one step further from your limited tool series to a limited brain cell series.  I know I would GREATLY benefit! :)

 

Thanks to the OP for starting a great dialogue.

Amazing advice in this thread already. The way this is headed, I might have to make this an official sticky post!

 

One piece of advice I'll throw in here that might be helpful when selecting your tools is to not focus too much on brands. Spend enough time in forums and watching podcasts, like mine, you might come away with a false impression that you simply can't get the job done without high-end stuff. That's simply not the case. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten comments on places like YouTube that say, "If I had a $400 router I could do that too!" Seriously? Yes Festool makes a kick-butt router, but at it's core, it's still a motor spinning a bit in circles and every brand of router does that much.

 

That's just one example but there are many we can talk about. Less expensive tools can certainly get the job done as long as you avoid the lemons. 

 

I occasionally try to do a video that shows a project being done with basic tools. Here's an example: http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/low-entertainment-center-pt-1/

 

Hope it helps to inspire you. The last thing we want is for you to be stifled and discouraged.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I must say that there are many great comments here that even gave me a couple of good ideas. The only thought that comes to mind is "Roy Underhill. I know most of you have seen his work and he does it all with just hand tools. My advice would be to focus on good handtools and learn how to use and sharpen them properly. There is nothing nicer than making something by hand without the power tools. With the advancement in power tools today, I think the art of using a hand plane is becoming a lost art.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • ..Kev unpinned this topic

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 62 Guests (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
  • Forum Statistics

    31.2k
    Total Topics
    421.8k
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    23,758
    Total Members
    3,644
    Most Online
    R Parekh
    Newest Member
    R Parekh
    Joined