Topic of a new French Rookie

[Brainkite]

Hi everyone,

I'm an all new architect since i've graduated 2 weeks ago, I'm all new to woodworking, but not new to handworkin since i've made a lot of models during my studies. Including the use of cuttingknives wohoooo!!! (and bandsaws)

During my last year I've falled in love with the work of Gerrit Rietveld (you might know that guy):

Since I knew that me and my girlfriend were going to settle down somewhere soon I decided

there was no way our future flat was going to be filled with IKEA fourniture (it's an extremely famous low cost furniture seller in europe), the same as in a looooot of dwelings in europe.

So I decided I wanted to build my self (and eventually design a bit) most of our future fourniture. (decision absolutely not influenced by Mark Spagnuolo's videos)

But i needed a little bit of experience.

And before i knew it, my girlfriend proposed me to make a new desk for her little brother's birthday.

So let me introduce you to my first project: Valentin's brand new desk.

I learn something every second working on this, so make yourself easy and tell me everything you want to say.

For the base design of the desk I quickly oriented myself on Rietveld's "Military table".

I just looove that table, I like the very heavy and constructed aspect, the over-expression of the structure and the construction. It's kind of brutal but also very subtile with the purity of the lines wich makes it also very abstract. Just love it. Also because Rietveld made it relativelly easy to build.

But considering the bedroom's configuration I desided it should be a corner desk so he could have a side for homeworking and a side for his laptop.

And also that the homeworing side will need shelfs, over the top of the table since I hate when the legs are not fully free under a table. So here is the last version of the design:

i've added some dividers to the last shelf so it can work a bit more like a composite beam since the left extremity is holded by only one side.

And here is the table's structure that I modified for the angle.

In fact, i just added a half table to one main table

Of cours I've modified a bit the sections of the different pieces proportionally because the desk is smaller than the table, and i had to stick to the sections that I could buy in my hardware shop reseller. (wich is actually not a very good wood reseller. I have to find a specialized one)

For the moment i've juste bought the wood for the lower part of the table, all the linear parts, it's mostly Pine wood, I've begin to plan and cut them. I've selected the most beautiful parts to be better seen in the final construction ( I've heard you Mark)

For the tabletop and the shelfs it's going to be 18mm OSB (sorry for your eyes if they're bleeding), but Plywood was to expensive for the budget that was given to me. And beside this, I kinda like the look of it, but I'm going to need your help for how I treat and finish it so the look won't bee "cheap".

I've installed myself in the big garden's Shed of my girlfriend's grand parents.

There's an old and crapy wooden workbench, I Have an old Bosch Jigsaw, an unknown brand electric planer and I bought me a brand new AEG ex125es Eccentric Sander.

And my girlfriend's grand father has a big collection of chisels.

Now hit me

About the design, how I modified it, the problems i'm going to have that i seem to ignore... whatever

I'll update you with the evolution of the construction.

[Tobbe Arnesson]

Looking good so far!

Why the bottom left cross bar?

If you can, show us some photos of the work in progress!

[Brainkite]

Looking good so far!

Why the bottom left cross bar?

If you can, show us some photos of the work in progress!

Just to keep the left foot from fleeping forward with the big shelf

Of course i'll upload you pictures, maybe tomorow

[jhl.verona]

Hi everyone,

I'm an all new architect since i've graduated 2 weeks ago, I'm all new to woodworking, but not new to handworkin since i've made a lot of models during my studies. Including the use of cuttingknives wohoooo!!! (and bandsaws)

Congratulations.

During my last year I've falled in love with the work of Gerrit Rietveld (you might know that guy)

Yes, but I'd never seen the third picture.

Since I knew that me and my girlfriend were going to settle down somewhere soon I decided

there was no way our future flat was going to be filled with IKEA fourniture (it's an extremely famous low cost furniture seller in europe), the same as in a looooot of dwelings in europe.

Sadly, also well know in America.

Of cours I've modified a bit the sections of the different pieces proportionally because the desk is smaller than the table, and i had to stick to the sections that I could buy in my hardware shop reseller. (wich is actually not a very good wood reseller. I have to find a specialized one)

For the moment i've juste bought the wood for the lower part of the table, all the linear parts, it's mostly Pine wood, I've begin to plan and cut them. I've selected the most beautiful parts to be better seen in the final construction ( I've heard you Mark)

For the tabletop and the shelfs it's going to be 18mm OSB (sorry for your eyes if they're bleeding), but Plywood was to expensive for the budget that was given to me. And beside this, I kinda like the look of it, but I'm going to need your help for how I treat and finish it so the look won't bee "cheap".

I've installed myself in the big garden's Shed of my girlfriend's grand parents.

There's an old and crapy wooden workbench, I Have an old Bosch Jigsaw, an unknown brand electric planer and I bought me a brand new AEG ex125es Eccentric Sander.

And my girlfriend's grand father has a big collection of chisels.

Pine should work for the structure, and it's cheap so since you're on a learning curve, mistakes won't be so expensive. OSB is an interesting choice, I've seen it used for office furniture, though not necessarily for the top.

I don't think the electric planer will help much. If the wood is already dimensioned, you'll be alright with the sander. Jig saws can wander a bit on thicker pieces, you could invest in a handsaw for the pine at least.

Chisels are always good to have - if they're sharp.

Now hit me

About the design, how I modified it, the problems i'm going to have that i seem to ignore... whatever

I'll update you with the evolution of the construction.

The main theme of the military table is a series of different thickness beams, and the solid table top. But, while I like how you've extended that to produce an L shaped table, it doesn't flow through to the shelves.

I think you'll need to do some experimenting. Try building a 1/4 scale model in balsa, or full scale in insulating foam (you might find that for free if you ask around).

Personally I'd keep the shelves open - no top, and use more of the beams for structure, rather than solid panels. You might also want to try a diagonal beam in the corner of the table instead - seems a little odd:

Have fun with the project,

John

[Brainkite]

Well thank you John for this big answer.

I had to use an electric planer because some pices came to me very badly cut and i had to remove more than 1mm on some of them to get a clean plane:

But the edges are very weak si i think i'll have to chamfer them but i still don't know how to do it properly. I made a quick test with a hand sander but it's difficult to make it linear.

I followed your advices, I bought a handsaw, it's a Stanley Jetcut for finition as it was written, I prefer cutting with it, I don't know if I'm more precise than with a jigsaw but i made a bit of training and achieve to cut pretty square each time.

yesterday came back to reality when I made the half-wood joints for the 4 main beams, i cut it with the theoric dimensions and finally had to make a lot of correction with a scraper to fit the actual pieces, it's not very clean but i'll go along with it.

For the design, I pretty soon decided I did not want the structure system of the table to continue over the top of the main table plate. I think it would have been too heavy or too rich visually (and it would have been much longer to build). Ive think about it but i also didn't want to break the main frame dimensions, that would have made several feets for the shelves that would fall into nowhere for the base frame or on the tabletop, thing I did not want. (i'll make you a quick sketchup if i'm not clear enough.)

So i decided I wanted something more abstract and light, a kind of folding game of planes in the same material than the tabletop. I betrayed the first principle by using one of the feet of the table structure to hold te shelves, but that's still "abstract" enough.

The shelves would be a wonderful subject to continue the beam system is a much smaller scale like in his goreous buffet, with using only two of the table feets, but asi said, it's more design time, more constructing time and i don't have ti for the moment, maybe i'll make a few test on sketchup. But i don't have time for balsa models (plus balsa is very expensive).

I'll give it a try for the diagonal beam but i'mm too afraid the joints are gonna be ugly made by me.

I have to go now, thanks a lot for your advices

[jhl.verona]

I had to use an electric planer because some pices came to me very badly cut and i had to remove more than 1mm on some of them to get a clean plane:

Wow. I've never seen anything so rough - can't imagine what machinery could have made those marks. You did a good job with the electric planer.

But the edges are very weak si i think i'll have to chamfer them but i still don't know how to do it properly. I made a quick test with a hand sander but it's difficult to make it linear.

I have used a 20 cm long block of wood with sandpaper attached like a hand plane. Takes a little time but it works. If you're in a hurry, and you're very careful the electric planer might work. Check on a piece of scrap first, and watch the grain. Plane left to right if the grain is /////, right to left if it's \\\\\. In other words you plane 'uphill'.

I followed your advices, I bought a handsaw, it's a Stanley Jetcut for finition as it was written, I prefer cutting with it, I don't know if I'm more precise than with a jigsaw but i made a bit of training and achieve to cut pretty square each time.

Half of the fun of woodworking is choosing the tool you prefer - even if it takes a little longer.

yesterday came back to reality when I made the half-wood joints for the 4 main beams, i cut it with the theoric dimensions and finally had to make a lot of correction with a scraper to fit the actual pieces, it's not very clean but i'll go along with it.

You should have seen the mess I made of the frame joints for my toolbox. Fortunately it was all test material - hope I do better on the real wood.

For the design, I pretty soon decided I did not want the structure system of the table to continue over the top of the main table plate. I think it would have been too heavy or too rich visually (and it would have been much longer to build). Ive think about it but i also didn't want to break the main frame dimensions, that would have made several feets for the shelves that would fall into nowhere for the base frame or on the tabletop, thing I did not want. (i'll make you a quick sketchup if i'm not clear enough.)

The description is clear - and it's your design, so go for it! I look forward to seeing your work in progress photos.

So i decided I wanted something more abstract and light, a kind of folding game of planes in the same material than the tabletop. I betrayed the first principle by using one of the feet of the table structure to hold te shelves, but that's still "abstract" enough.

Not a betrayal, a compromise. Life is full of them. .

The shelves would be a wonderful subject to continue the beam system is a much smaller scale like in his goreous buffet, with using only two of the table feets, but asi said, it's more design time, more constructing time and i don't have ti for the moment, maybe i'll make a few test on sketchup. But i don't have time for balsa models (plus balsa is very expensive).

Exactly, it works very well on the buffet cabinet.

I'll give it a try for the diagonal beam but i'mm too afraid the joints are gonna be ugly made by me.

I'm not so courageous myself, so I always try the joint out on some scraps - even half scale if the pieces would be too big. You save in the end - time and wood, because it rarely works out first time. "You have to build it, to know how to build it".

I have to go now, thanks a lot for your advices

Look forward to seeing the results.

John

[Brainkite]

Okay, I've been away in my family, then Sicilia, then Barcelona for 4 weeks, and since I'm back I've given a good hit to the evolution of the desk.

I've assembled the main frame.

I've bought a 20€ router , was a bit suspicious but it achieved the desired goal: the chicanes of the legs.

But when you put the vacume adapter, you can't see anything of what you're doing.

Had to make a few ajustements for the legs to be absolutely vertical. Because the main beams weren' perfect.

Now that the structure is assembles i have to cut the OSB pannel.

I just ordered 750gr of clear Epoxy resin for the tabletop so that it fills the small irregularities of the OSB and it gives a plane surface.

http://boutique.dalb...oxy-p-3294.html

I never used this product so every good advices to use it are welcome.

I just wondered if there would be any problem of putting epoxy over finish.

Elsewhere, I was planning on using this epoxy also as glue for the half-wood assemblages of the main beams wich are a bit dirty and seems to fragilise the structure:

What do you think? do i have to put glass fibre in the epoxy or do i just have to fill the gap with epoxy?

By the way, do anyone knows a simple free cutting optimization software that I could use to loose the less OSB possible when cutting my pieces.

Thanks

[Brainkite]

Okay, just moved to the the finishing phase for the structural pieces, I just unmount the feets and some other parts to finish them separately but was too lazy to unmount the whole thing to finish each pieces separately so it has been finished mounted.

I'm not very happy with the first lowcost finish I bought wich turned out to be acrylic finish (incolor satin) wich is a bit thick and as I applied it with a paintbrush you can see all the strokes of the brush when the light strikes on it. Still, I handsanded it a lot and the texture is now soo smooth. I bought a polyurethane finish (wallnut) and used it in second layer and it looks just handsome. I realised polyurethane finish is much more practical to apply, it's more liquid, the layers are thiner and i use to put a bit of white spirit in my pad so that its a bit diluted. But a lot longer to cure.

The result is handsome, it's not too dark, just a little bit browner.

The wood is a beauty when sanded properly and finished.

And here's me preparing to cut the OSB panels for the tabletop and the shelfs. There was not enough room in my small workshop so i took it outside so that the OSB can reconnect with it's origins

Still Wainting my epoxy resin to arrive

Advices for my previous post are still welcome.

By the way i was planning to chamfer the edges of the OSB tabletop and just wondering how to do it, had the idea to use a chamfer mill for my router but i think it's going to make explode every pieces composing the OSB wich will be reverse grain. And i'm afraid sanding it will do the same.

What do you think.

[jhl.verona]

Okay, just moved to the the finishing phase for the structural pieces, I just unmount the feets and some other parts to finish them separately but was too lazy to unmount the whole thing to finish each pieces separately so it has been finished mounted.

I'd have taken it all apart - it's easier to paint, and the finish won't 'glue' the pieces together. But if you're not planing on taking it apart ever - no problem.

I'm not very happy with the first lowcost finish I bought wich turned out to be acrylic finish (incolor satin) wich is a bit thick and as I applied it with a paintbrush you can see all the strokes of the brush when the light strikes on it. Still, I handsanded it a lot and the texture is now soo smooth. I bought a polyurethane finish (wallnut) and used it in second layer and it looks just handsome. I realised polyurethane finish is much more practical to apply, it's more liquid, the layers are thiner and i use to put a bit of white spirit in my pad so that its a bit diluted. But a lot longer to cure.

I good quality brush really makes a difference. Treat it well and it will last a long time.

The result is handsome, it's not too dark, just a little bit browner.

The wood is a beauty when sanded properly and finished.

Looking good.

And here's me preparing to cut the OSB panels for the tabletop and the shelfs. There was not enough room in my small workshop so i took it outside so that the OSB can reconnect with it's origins

Still Wainting my epoxy resin to arrive

Advices for my previous post are still welcome.

By the way i was planning to chamfer the edges of the OSB tabletop and just wondering how to do it, had the idea to use a chamfer mill for my router but i think it's going to make explode every pieces composing the OSB wich will be reverse grain. And i'm afraid sanding it will do the same.

What do you think.

Whatever finish you use it will follow the smoothness or roughness of the prepared surface. And exoxy is very hard to smooth down well.

I found an interesting site (also in French) which has a finishing PDF - they suggest sanding the surface, then oil based primer and finish for a smooth surface.

HTH

John

[Brainkite]

Hey everyone,

almost done here, I'm on the final assembling phase but i have a little unexpexted problem. I did my last coat of finish on the tabletop but i had no more white spirit and some ecological white spirit was lend to me. Usually the other coats with normal white spirit cured in 8 hours but this one is still not totally wet after more than 30 hours of curing and it still has a very greasy touch. The thing is that i realised too late that the use of this ecologic white spirit might be a mistake, i dont know how it's gonna cure but I certainly don't want it to keep that greasy touch.

I wish i could just put on one last coat with normal white spirit but i'm afraid that's not a good idea as long as the present coat is still not totally cured.

So if you have any advices, maybe some acetone to remove the greasy part....

i have no idea.

[jhl.verona]

...

Usually the other coats with normal white spirit cured in 8 hours but this one is still not totally wet after more than 30 hours of curing and it still has a very greasy touch. The thing is that i realised too late that the use of this ecologic white spirit might be a mistake, i dont know how it's gonna cure but I certainly don't want it to keep that greasy touch.

I wish i could just put on one last coat with normal white spirit but i'm afraid that's not a good idea as long as the present coat is still not totally cured.

...

Sounds like the 'green' spirits aren't compatible with the finish. Doesn't sound good, I'm afraid.

Either use some scrap and the same (bad) mix, or find an unseen area of the work, and see if you can remove the coat with 'real' white spirits. This shouldn't damage the cured coats of finish underneath.

I agree that you'll either have to get that coat to cure, or remove it, before you apply another coat.

How is the temperature/humidity? Here it's getting close to the limit without heating, and low temperatures, high humidity greatly increase drying times, even to days. So waiting a bit more might be an option.

Let us know what type of finish you're using.

John

[Brainkite]

I was using Liberon Gloss incolor finish 50% diluted with (real) white spirit. Made a pretty good job.

I had to terminate the desk today so i kept on going, the finish was enough cured to continue working. The desk is now all assembled and in place. The tabletop still have a cold touch and some areas have still this greasy feel that makes that your finger won't slide smoothly on the surface. I'm pretty confident now that the finish is going to cure completely in a few days.

There's a lot of parameters, the weather has been more cold and wet, i remember having been a bit generous for this last coat, and there's this "Green" spirit.

All i can say is that i'm now very happy with the result. All the details that was making me worry desapear into the completeness of the assemblage. I'm pretty happy with the choice i made with the OSB, it wasn't very reassuring because it's not plain wood and you have to learn how to work with it, cutting it has been a pain, sanding it took for ever, made a lot of test for the finish (any not incolor finish will darker the edges of each piece of wood composing it) But i'm very happy with the result because starting from a cheap material, you can make something beautiful, intreaging and classy.

I'm also very surprise about the strength of the long foot holding the shelves, i was very worry it won't hold the weight (i didn't expected) and especially OSB can be a pain when using screws. But everything went allright and the shelves are absolutely horizontal.

I'm just not very happy with the black paint on the frame. It's too black. It just makes it desapear.

I also realise now that this project was maybe a bit ambicious for a first one. But i made it to the very end so that's a good thing.

I'll send you some pictures because there was a poor lighting in the room, so you'll just have to imagine for the moment

[Brainkite]

Okay, i could take some pictures last time i was there.

There's a few things i'm not completely happy with but the final result is pretty cool logging so i try to make abstraction.

Let me know what you think !

[jhl.verona]

Seems that Valentin is happy with the results! Congratulations on completing the project. You chose a quite difficult project to begin with, and unusual materials, with a fairly limited set of tools. Probably the most important lesson you'll have learned is that it's a lot harder than it looks, and takes much more time! Satisfying, though.

There will always be things you could have done better, but that's part of the learning process. It'll be interesting to see how it stands up to day to day use over the next few months. The structure is certainly lighter than many projects I've seen - which I find pleasing. It's always 'easy' to over-engineer things, getting it just right is difficult.

The experience will certainly help your career - either you'll go on to build other stuff, or you'll have a much better understanding of how to communicate your requirements to those who will be doing the building. I wonder how many architects have ever put two pieces of wood together in their lives (forum members excepted, of course)?

John