chefmagnus@grics.net Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 My lovely bride has expressed displeasure at our back porch being filled with green cherry, black walnut, ash, and locust covered in those ugly blue tarps is how she puts it. I told her that I didn't have anywhere else to put it. I think she is missing her chats with lady friends out there. Well, that might have changed. My buddy Josh, a retired veteran too, He collects scrap for extra money, found a polycarbonate green house that someone was throwing away because one of the lower sidewalls got smashed. He thought that I might be able use it or repair it. He has heard my wife say that she wants a green house. I think I might be able to turn it into a solar kiln for use now and later the wife can use it as a greenhouse in the early spring. Then I can turn it back into a kiln for the summer and fall. Kind of double duty and I can say that it is a greenhouse for her. My plan is to attach it on the South side of my shipping container. We have all the frame pieces of the greenhouse and they measure about 18 feet long by 8 feet wide when I put the two halves side by side or is it end to end. It is about 7' at the roof peak, I will have to put some kind of sheet goods onto the area that is smashed out but that is at the bottom. It is 24" between all the frame pieces. There is a 30" door in each end. The frames are made from steel painted black. I was thinking of a 2x4 24":OC frame attached to the side of the shipping container then some sheet material for the back wall. Then attach the two greenhouse halves at each stud with a screw thru the frame. I have some deck piers blocks leftover from placing the shipping container so we can build a 2x6 floor 12" OC to get the lumber up off the ground. I would like to do 24"OC but don't think that the span would support the wood pile. I was thinking just laying down shipping pallets over the floor frame for the floor I was going to put a sheet of 6mil plastic over the frame as a moisture barrier. I have quite a pile of AC2 pressure treated lumber from dumpster retrieval at construction sites. Josh pointed out that I don't need more material to cover the busted out part I can use the material from the two inside ends to fill in the missing poly. That way we can get through the whole structure not just the small door in the middle. It has two solar powered fans, one on each end. I was going to remove them and fill in the openings. I figure if I put them on the frame pieces in the center of the greenhouse in the sun that they would move the air around inside the kiln. To hold the heat in we are going to cover the back wall with foil backed rigid foam to reflect the heat back at the lumber stack that I want to dry not transferring the heat to the lumber stored in the shipping container. This insulation had been on the walls of my shop but they took it out when they filled the blocks with foam. I was going to cover the floor frame with 6 mil plastic under the pallets to keep moisture from coming in from the ground. I don't think that I need any vents that enough air will get in and out by my sloppy construction. I do have some leftover black interior trim paint that I could paint the floor black with it or is the black plastic enough. I got the design idea from Wood Web here is a picture of the their design. http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/bsh/solar_kiln/14.gif Here is there page with more info http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Solar_Kiln_Designs_2.html It was a pretty nicely built green house. Even after being tossed into the bed of a pickup and hauled around the door works just fine. All the panels are double sided polycarbonate and sealed. It has roof windows but I don't plan on using them. So now the question that I have are these... Will a solar kiln work over the winter in IL or should I wait until spring to set it up? How much of a air gap do I need to leave around the lumber stack? Is there a limit on how high we stack the lumber? I plan on using 1" stick to space the lumber in two separate piles in one in each green house half. The longer lumber will have to go into both halves. I don't know if it is today's rainy weather or what but when I checked with the moisture meter the green stuff was 38-46%. I have more umber on the back porch than will fit, is there a way of condensing it? My stack on the back porch is 13'x36-38'x6-8'. It is about half cherry, a quarter black walnut, and the rest locust, ash, and maple. The pieces are about 9/4 to some 12/4 with the bark still on them. Would it be worth it at this point to use a saw to rip the long edge of to save some space? Also anyone ever painted a shipping container? I am told that we are painting it TARDIS blue. I thought that I could powerwash it then attack it with the Wagner Power Sprayer. Sound doable or think again? Josh wants to trade for me putting a SSD drive into his old laptop. I told him that I would put the drive in for nothing. The drive is a 40GB that I had been using for LAN gaming. He has also offered to help with greenhouse/kiln if I feed him, He said that it would be more fun than channel surfing. IF I can figure the details out, we will start on Thursday. Today is my birthday and I have a parade to march in. Thank you for your advice,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Kolva Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 A couple of months ago we had the owners of Collector's Specialty Woods come to Red Rocks Community College and do a presentation about their business for our faculty and students. One of the stories relayed was how the worst thing they ever did was build a solar kiln, between the temperature fluctuations, lack of moisture and dry air in the San Luis Valley of Colorado that the kiln just ruined their wood (checks, honeycomb, and warpage). I suppose your mileage in Illinois could very well be different but from what they said of experience I would be careful putting expensive wood into a solar kiln without some extensive experimentation. http://www.cswoods.com/ The greenhouse sounds like a good idea though! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefmagnus@grics.net Posted November 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 A couple of months ago we had the owners of Collector's Specialty Woods come to Red Rocks Community College and do a presentation about their business for our faculty and students. One of the stories relayed was how the worst thing they ever did was build a solar kiln, between the temperature fluctuations, lack of moisture and dry air in the San Luis Valley of Colorado that the kiln just ruined their wood (checks, honeycomb, and warpage). I suppose your mileage in Illinois could very well be different but from what they said of experience I would be careful putting expensive wood into a solar kiln without some extensive experimentation. http://www.cswoods.com/ The greenhouse sounds like a good idea though! Dry air isn't a major worry around here. We normally have 85-100% humidity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 I can't help you with the air drying as I'm in the same dilemma. However, in answer to painting a shipping container. Did that once and thought I did a nice job. I gave it to my soon to be ex. She returned it along with a subpoena. I probably used the wrong color 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefmagnus@grics.net Posted November 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 I am posting this over at wood web too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefmagnus@grics.net Posted November 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 I got a helpful response from Gene over at WoodWeb.com Gene Wengert-Wood Doc For effective solar drying, you need about one square foot of collector for every 10 bf of lumber. Will a solar kiln work over the winter in IL or should I wait until spring to set it up? Northern IL...no, not much. Southern IL, yes, unless the winter is really cold. How much of a air gap do I need to leave around the lumber stack? One foot at least on the edges. Is there a limit on how high we stack the lumber? The higher the stack, the more chance it will become unstable and tip over. It depends on pile width, but in general twenty layers or about three feet high and then you need a 4x4 crosser or bolster for stabilization. I don't know if it is today's rainy weather or what but when I checked with the moisture meter the green stuff was 38-46%. I assume you used a moisture meter. They are not reliable above 28% MC, so you really do not know how wet the lumber is. I have more umber on the back porch than will fit, is there a way of condensing it? You need at least 12" on each side of the stack. The lumber needs to be on 3/4" thick stickers. Also anyone ever painted a shipping container? The darker the color, the kore solar heating you will get. A dark roof is especially beneficial. Richard Campbell Member Thank you Gene, I am in central Ill, according to everything we are in for a bad winter. I am going to go ahead and set the greenhouse up. After talking to the person that has a solar kiln 60 miles south of me. He has a Virgina Tech design solar kiln for about 1000bf. I am going put the R-26 foam between the floor joists. He also suggested putting it into the hip wall while using it as a kiln. He also said that I should get some lumber drying cart made or bought. He recommended cheapo fans in the front and ends of the stacks. He also said to paint the floor and back wall with black aluminium paint. He also said that I needed a moisture barrier between the back wall and the shipping container wall. Even if it doesn't work as a kiln it will get the wood off the back porch and make the wife happy. Gene do you agree with all of his recommendations? NEW: 11/12 #6: Solar Kiln from Storm Smashed Green ... Gene Wengert-Wood Doc You bet. You will find most of them or their concepts in the VT plans. NEW: 11/13 #7: Solar Kiln from Storm Smashed Green ... Richard Campbell Member We have started this morning about 6 am. I have been using my Japanese style saw to cut the foam down to fit between the 2x6 joist. We are moving along quickly. I am tacking things together with framing nailer and Josh is go after me with screws. We have the floor platform built. Cold as can be here today. Actually seeing snow flakes. Eager to get the frame up to get out of the wind. Will let you know how it goes along. Also decide to use up decking board for the floor instead of pallets. Would be nicer for the greenhouse uses. - See more at: http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/sawdry.pl?read=769370#sthash.XQuBSHYt.Q29Biit5.dpuf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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