paulh Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I had custom kitchen and bath cabinets installed in my home three months ago. Cabinets are a walnut veneer. Frame finishes were professionally applied on site, while cabinet doors were finished off site. The finish is lacquer, I believe a pre catalyzed acrylic was used, I believe two coats of this finish were applied. Cabinets came out beautifully, however a couple of issues have since come up with the cabinet finish. Wet areas around kitchen and bath sinks are showing signs of water damage, with a greying of the wood grain and grey water spots becoming prominent. Additionally the cabinets have yellowed significantly. While the inside of the cabinet doors have retained the original rich walnut tones, the external surfaces in the brightest locations have changed in appearance to that of a yellow teak. The contrast is striking. This is a bright environment, and I was aware the wood color would change with time, but I did not expect the color to become so yellow, and I am surprised by the speed of the color change. Also I have oil finished walnut furniture adjacent to the cabinets that have not changed in color, and this tends to make the teak-iness of the cabinets more apparent. I am looking for advice on where to go from here with the cabinet finishes. Will additional coats of the same lacquer finish resolve the issue of poor performance in wet locations? If so how many coats should be applied? Or, should a different finish be used to resolve the water issues? if so should the existing finish be removed first? Can the existing finish be removed without damaging the veneer material? What is causing the yellow? The wood, or the lacquer? Since I have to revisit the cabinet finishes, is there anything I can do at this point to mellow the yellow? Any advice or opinion would be appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Well you have a can of worms. First two coats? Number of coats is a meaningless number, you need the right film thickness. No vinyl sealer under lacquer is asking for water damage. Walnut looks like cheap veneer and turns yellow with acrylic lacquer. The wood should have been equalized to bring the color to the desired color. Whoever did this needs to fix it properly. Why were the FF's done onsite? Is this a reface job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulh Posted March 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Thank you for the responses. I appreciate your time and assistance. These are newly built cabinets. The cabinet maker has done good work in the past for friends and family. He built my cabinets in his shop, and installed them here on site. A different craftsman came on site to do the lacquer finish, taking doors and drawer fronts back to his shop, for convenience I presume. I did not know at the time, but the finisher had not worked with the cabinet maker in the past. There are signs of water damage anywhere the cabinets have been exposed to water, face frames, drawer fronts as well as doors. Steam from the dishwasher is damaging the cabinet front and frame around the dishwasher. I have a rarely used guest bath. The new vanity is showing some significant water damage after I had house guests visit (and use this bath) for only five days. The finisher tells me the yellow is unavoidable because of the bright environment, and his proposal is to touch up areas with water damage. I have him on hold for the moment while I get additional opinions. I would think at a minimum all the cabinets should have additional lacquer applied, as I would expect over time all cabinets installed in kitchens and baths eventually get some amount of moisture/water exposure, and this finish as applied appears incompatible with moist/wet environments. But all of this is completely out of my experience. The cabinet maker is running some tests, not sure the extent of these, to see if we can apply an oil based product on top of this lacquer to address the water susceptibility, and to test some type of glaze to see if we can improve the yellowing. I worry about durability of the finish, and about applying something that makes matters worse. I guess my minimum goal here is to get a durable surface that can tolerate kitchen and bath environments and look acceptable for the next 10 to 15 years. If the yellowing is unavoidable, so be it, I can live with that. But the water susceptibility has to be resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 This is not a matter of touching up. The cabinets need to be completely refinished. You have to use vinyl sealer under lacquer and you cannot cover lacquer with oil base to fix stupid. The only way lacquer can be used in wet environment is with vinyl sealer. Lacquer has a re coat period you have exceeded that period, you can no longer add additional coats. If your cabinet maker is not equipped to finish his work then the FF's should have been sent to the finisher along with the doors prior to being attached to the boxes. NO finisher in his right mind would spray solvent lacquer on site, this is the 21st century. There is nothing right about any of this, your being fed a line of crap from both sides. The cabinet maker or general contractor is obligated to make this right. If you did not have a general contractor and the cabinet maker did the install then he should have a contractors license and bond. If you like the cabinets I would ask the cabinet maker to completely redo the job not just refinish. If there is an grey spots in the wood it is not fixable to new cabinet standards. He needs to find a new finisher that knows what he is doing. If you take one of the drawer faces and or doors to a real cabinet shop they can check the finish thickness with a meter. My guess is the finish is WAY to thin and that coupled with no vinyl makes for a lousy finish. I would do this as a CYA just in case you need to get lawyers involved. Don't let the time expire to attach a bond. Regarding color if the woods would have been equalized this would be a non issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulh Posted March 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Photos Attached I didn't get a good shot of the yellowing, but this shows the water damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 That doesn't even look like it has a finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 And in the pics it looks like the edge banding was not heated properly. The white lines in the pics suggest the use of a household iron application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted March 20, 2015 Report Share Posted March 20, 2015 Yeah the white has me, wondering if it's grain filler or something. I know the picture is not perfect. But something isn't playing nice with the finish???? I have a question, I know this may sound stupid...is this new wood or refinished old doors? Or just moisture from your hands. Appears the areas are contact points. You say bright area...the wood receives direct sunlight? Ask the guy what he applied to the doors. Don't be shy. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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