Sanding sealer...

[went_postal]

What the heck do you actually use that stuff for? I have never used it but I see that just about all the major manufacturers make one type or another.

I am getting ready to pick out what I want to color the cabinet I made with... Not sure how fancy I actually want to get but I want to make sure it at least looks good.

Why does finishing have to be so difficult? =(

[AceHoleInOne]

Here you go... right from the horses mouth...probably not necessary for the hobby woodworker...but in production mode, is a good thing. For the hobby woodworker, just use your topcoat and build multiple coats.

Sanding Sealer

-Ace-

[iSawitFirst]

I built my grandsons a wagon and made the sides out of pine. I wanted a gloss red lacquer finish so I sealed them with sanding sealer first thinking it would help level the surface. I had them professionally painted and when I told him about the sanding sealer he told me I had made a big mistake. He wanted the lacquer to soak into the wood. MyBad. So, I had to pay him to do a little sanding first.

By the way, after 5 coats of lacquer and wet sanding the wagon sides look fantastic.

[AceHoleInOne]

He wanted the lacquer to soak into the wood. MyBad. So, I had to pay him to do a little sanding first.

Just curious...was that sanding sealer shellac based, water based or a lacquer based? Perhaps the concern was compatibility? Sanding sealer is usually a topcoat with stearate added to give the finish some fluff or volume which helps build and fill the grain quicker and sands without too much effort.

-Ace-

[BuilderBill]

Sanding sealer is formulated to be a high-build product softer than a topcoat thus easier to sand. The idea is to put on a coat or two of sealer, sand it level and then start applying topcoats. Lots easier to get a smooth, level topcoat when you start out with a smooth, level base and the sealer gives you that. Read Ace's link.

Saves you some time, makes the work easier. I dunno about you, but by the time I get to the finishing stage I'm in high-gear-production-mode, anything that makes it easier is alright in my book.

Best,

Bill

[iSawitFirst]

Ace,

You know, that was never discussed with the painter. It was water based.

[went_postal]

So... I started staining things. And THANKFULLY I did a test piece that wasn't the finished product. I have never had this problem before but the poplar is blotching like crazy. Not sure if it is the wood or the fact that I am not a typical oil based finish user. At any rate.. I am giving the bulls eye Seal Coat a shot with their directions for pre-stain. 50/50 of the seal coat and DNA.

The first piece I tested on was not sanded well... So I took another piece and sanded it down and then added just oil... looks okay. Now I am going to try the other half of that piece with the seal coat and then the stain and see how it goes.

[PaulMarcel]

Ooh, poplar is notorious for blotching.

Seal Coat will work well.

Another option is to sand the surface to P320 somewhat "burnishing" the surface to limit absorption (conceptually similar to the Seal Coat dusting). Yet another option is "Pre-Stain Conditioner" that you put on first then stain over. This lets the conditionner be absorbed unevenly as if it's blotching, but the real stain goes on evenly overtop.

Gel stain (oil-based) would work well. It has worked well for me on a couple projects in Poplar.

[AceHoleInOne]

The sap wood (white portion) is probably drinking the seal-coat deep into the wood. Poplar wood can be very absorbent. Any wash coats (blotch control) you need to play with. Try hitting the wood again with your seal-coat if your still blotching. Or try a less thinned seal-coat say 70/30 or even 60/40. If you over seal, try a light wipe or scuff with 320 paper to open the wood fibers back up. Seal-coats aren't perfect, you need to play and what works for you.

-Ace-

[went_postal]

not excited about the results...

I am sure you can guess which is which.

I "scuffed" the surface with an acrylic pad (as suggested in the instructions) but guessing I didn't do it enough.

[AceHoleInOne]

Left side is a blotch for sure...right side not looking too bad in regards to the blotching. Are you thinking about a pigmented stain or just an oil finish? The reason for scuffing is to smooth out any nibs in the shellac and also give the shellac some "teeth" for the stain to hold on too.

-Ace-

[went_postal]

Left side is a blotch for sure...right side not looking too bad in regards to the blotching. Are you thinking about a pigmented stain or just an oil finish? The reason for scuffing is to smooth out any nibs in the shellac and also give the shellac some "teeth" for the stain to hold on too.

-Ace-

I'm using varathane colonial maple. As I already stained the door panels I am kind of committed at this point

[went_postal]

This is interesting... the back of the can for Seal Coat says that for pre-stain you do a 50/50 mix of the Seal Coat and DNA. The info on their website says 3 parts DNA to 2 parts Seal Coat...

http://www.rustoleumibg.com/images/tds/CBG_ZIN_TDS_BULLS%20EYE%20SEALCOAT%20Universal%20Sanding%20Sealer_2010.pdf

Interesting...

Maybe that was my problem yesterday in my test... Too much seal coat in the mix. Will have to try that later.

[AceHoleInOne]

Here is another thing, just something to throw out.

Does the stain have much pigment to it? I believe the Varathane is a "Deep Penetrating" probably more of a dye. After the can has set awhile letting the can settle. Does the bottom of the stain can contain much pigment. Sometimes stains can be more of a dye than stain. Looking at the blotch portion, it appears more dye. May want to consider a good gel stain. Since you already stained your doors. You could coat everything with the Varathane (dye base coat) then use a good gel stain over top like a glaze to help even things out?

Make sure to work out your finishing scheduled on a test board.

-Ace-

[went_postal]

Here is another thing, just something to throw out.

Does the stain have much pigment to it? I believe the Varathane is a "Deep Penetrating" probably more of a dye. After the can has set awhile letting the can settle. Does the bottom of the stain can contain much pigment. Sometimes stains can be more of a dye than stain. Looking at the blotch portion, it appears more dye. May want to consider a good gel stain. Since you already stained your doors. You could coat everything with the Varathane (dye base coat) then use a good gel stain over top like a glaze to help even things out?

Make sure to work out your finishing scheduled on a test board.

-Ace-

When I got the can home there was a good 1/16th to 1/8th inch of goo at the bottom of the can... Not so over the last 5 days or so. So... probably right about the stain.

I see that Woodcraft carries the General Finishes Pre-Stain... May pick up a can of that AND test "watering" down the seal coat some more. I have enough "extra" wood from this batch to test it.

Odds are I can get the color I want with the 50/50.... but it will probably take a ton of coats.

The gel stain is an option... but I have yet to find a color that I really like in a variety of the brands I have seen. I believe Minwax has a colonial maple that is close but it is missing a lot of the red that I want out of the color.

[went_postal]

So... Did my test with the Seal Coat.

did another 1:1 and then did 3:2, 2:1 (4:2), 5:2, and nothing. All along the same board masked off. Let it dry for a bit and then tried sanding with the abrasive pad (ick) and 400 grit (yay!).

Looks to me like 2:1 or 5:2 (more DNA than seal coat)is gonna be the winner here. It will obviously take a few coats... but I think it will work out just fine. Worst thing that can happen is I have to either sand it down and try again or gel coat it with a color that is not what I want.