Balsa model still winning - just...

[jhl.verona]

Had my first battle with SketchUp 8.0 - we drew even I think, but the war's not over yet...

I just love building balsa models (probably the smell of the glue) but I can appreciate the value of other types of 3D modelling. This is just a few notes on how things went - might help others, hopefully.

I'd like to build a writing table for my laptop (dream project for the time being), and I really liked this one, it's called Landa by Samuel Accoceberry. Only I want to make a few changes...

So, pour out the wine, watch a few videos, and then pass a few hours (about 8 in all) trying to understand how the program ticks. I like to get my head around the 'idea' used, but I found that the cut from a big block example (the primordal chair) just didn't work for me.

Soon got the hang of the guides though, so I sort of drew the table in 2D with guides, then used that to produce the pieces. Here are the guides, with a sort of template I made (to check if the dimensions seemed correct) to the right:

Then I used the guides to cut out the pieces and extrude. Here I'm 'building' the legs, which have a lap joint (at least I hope it's a lap joint):

Then I just moved them to the correct position, some typing reguired.

Which (many hours later) gave me a table:

Which I eventually managed to dimension (in another layer, so I can switch them on and off):

Not too bad, but I'd have built the balsa model more quickly, of course, and there are still many rough spots:

1. The damn glue gets everywhere, when you match up two 'objects' they're glued. OK, should have read the other threads, seems that components will be my friends.

2. I have hollow legs - the table, I mean. The front legs to be precise, the back legs are solid. Too much line trimming perhaps? Or wrong extrusion, subtraction technique?

3. Also the desk has a sort of wafer thin film, so the inside of the desk is in dashed lines. I can extrude this film upwards, but I can't get rid of it - there's no 'pin' tool ;-) OK, so that's what happens when you close a rectangle - but I don't yet know how to avoid it.

Plus, one nagging doubt - how do you get the dimensions of the various pieces, other than measuring each and every one?

HTH

John

[AMarshall]

John,

Nice model! You definitely didn't pick the easiest one to start with! Here are some random thoughts, based on my interpretation of your questions:

Guidelines - Wow. I don't know if I've ever seen a model with that many guidelines. Not how I typically approach it, but hey if it works for you, do it. There's always multiple ways to get it done.

Components - Yep, this is the best defense against SketchUp's "Stickiness" behavior. It also allows you to model a single leg, then just rotate/flip 3 other copies.

Hollow Leg - I think you are just missing a face on your leg. This situation is easy to create by erasing a line that touches the face, and it's easy to fix also. Typically you can just use the line tool to retrace one of the perimeter lines for the missing face. The face should "reheal" and close off the face. If it doesn't, then likely you have a corner that doesn't quite meet exactly, so the face is not contained on all 4 sides.

Dashed Lines - SU8 has a new feature to show the back edges of a model, and they show up as dashed lines. Try a camera style that doesn't have these, or just turn them off manually in the Style dialog box. This should help with the wafer thin film issue.

Dimensions - There is not automated way to add dimensions to your model, sorry. SU would have a tough time figuring out which were important dimensions. Gotta add them by yourself, and putting them on another layer is a great way to keep them flexible.

Good luck with SketchUp - you are off to a great start!

[PurpLev]

of course there are many ways to skin a cat (don't ask me how I know), and to each their own.

that said, I think there are certain approaches to working with SU that speed and ease the drawing process. I won't repeat what Aaron has said, although I agree with his suggestions, I'll try to just add to that:

1. Guidelines (ok, I may be repeating a bit but in a different light): I usually try to use guidelines to guide me and help out, in that sense I try to minimize their presence in the model as having too many at a single time can sometimes throw you off focus, and can be somewhat confusing.

2. Drawing in 3D: unless I'm tracing off of an imported image (scans) I never work in 2D. it just doesn't really have any advantage with SU since SU has inferences and precise positioning using keyboard inputs. working in 3D is easier, and will also lead to my next point:

3. Drawing in place: I find drawing parts in random space and then moving those parts to their 'proper' position in the model (chair/desk/etc) is (a) time consuming as it leads to a lot of camera moving and navigating in the model, and ( less precise and more chance of getting alignments and sizing wrong. If I draw a leg in it's intended space, and then draw a stretcher in it's intended space - as I draw the stretcher I can draw it in prefect size and position along the leg assembly. If it's between 2 legs, I simply extrude (push) it from one leg to the other to get a perfect fit between the legs, rather than try to move the 2nd leg to the 'right' position and keep it aligned with the other leg and stretcher - again, too much movements and navigation, and trial and error.

4. Starting from a rectangle: sometimes (mostly) it's easier for me to draw a unique shape by deleting geometry from a rectangle than to create perfect guides and using the draw line tool. this goes back to my previous points of drawing in place, and also will result in using less guides as a rectangle already has 2 sets of parallel lines of given/known lengths.

5. Always use components. I actually create a plugin just for that (boardmaker - available in the SU downloads section)- it will create a 3D block and make it a component. you can use that to make boards, or make boards and then remove geometry from them to make other parts - as I mentioned, sometimes it's easier to create a given shape by removing from a rectangle than it is to draw the shape from scratch with lines.

These are all guidelines that could mean easier work with SU - but as I stated in the beginning, to each their own.

So far so good though.

[jhl.verona]

@Aaron:

Guidelines: Wow. Yes indeed. Probably not the right way to do things, though I kept them on a separate layer. Nails - hammer, screws - hammer, er...

Components. Yes, or perhaps groups. One of the videos (that dreadful chair) said they're clones, so I deleted that from my list, because the legs are actually two distinct items (Front left is identical to back right, front right to back left). OK, writing that helped - perhaps they're two copies of two distinct components, instead of four groups? But you've got to rotate front left 180 degrees for it to become back right. So I think 4 groups.

Hollow leg - do you mean redrawing over existing lines? I stared at those two legs for minutes flying around above and below until I was giddy. Didn't see anything different. But obviously something is different. Fascinatingly it's the lapped side that's hollow:

Dashed lines. They're great - the X-Ray view I think. Except that, with the lid open slightly, looking into the desk (the carcase?) the inside lines should be full, while the underside edges are dashed.

Unfortunately I have everything dashed, so there is a sort of cling film over the top - it estrudes inwards and outwards, but won't go away. (I've always wanted a 'go away' key on the keyboard). Some trick to it, like hitting 'del' in The Gimp to make the selection transparent? ;-)

[Edit]Just found out - it is the del key. Thought I'd already tried that... Just choose the surface, hit 'del' and the cling film goes away. No popping sound, unfortunately. [/Edit]

Dimensions - sigh. A hover text on the lines would have been nice.

@PurpLev

Cats, skinning, for the use of.

Guidelines. Confusing - that rat's nest? Nah...

3D. Inferences. Yes, true. Just got to watch the scale a bit. I notice that scaling hardly works at all unless you claw over the actual model.

Drawing in place. Uhm, but... Not tried groups/components yet, do they 'unglue' themselves from everything else once you've selected them and pronounced them 'g or c'? It was the glue factor that kept me away...

Drawing in place. So a 3 x 6 with a lap joint, would be a 3 x 6 rectangle then extrude, go back an subtract the lap? I did two rectangles, extruding one to 3 and the other to slightly less. Probably not the same thing to SketchUp (isn't SU also stumble upon?) but looks the same.

Components. Oh yes. Good idea for a tattoo, backup your computer data, switch off the gas before you leave on holiday, put the lid back on the varnish straight away, use components in SU. Got it.

Many thanks, I feel things will get better from here on. Though I think I'm in love with that tape measure button ;-)

John

[AMarshall]

Stream of conciousness coming at you, John!

Components vs Groups: Definitely 2 unique components, not 4 groups. It's easy to rotate a component - use the move tool and grab one of the little "plus" signs that appear. It's also easy to flip (mirror) a component - right click on it and select "flip along" then choose the axis. Picking the axis is not all that intuitive, so I typically make a few flips to sort out the red and green directions until I get it right.

Hollow Leg: Yes, redraw over an existing line and the missing face should reappear. From your picture, it looks like your leg is missing 2 opposite faces - the front and back. Try rotating to the botom of the foot like in your picture and making a rectangle on the existing bottom of the leg.

Cling film: I didn't quite understand what you meant the first time, but I got it now. Sounds like you already figured out that you had an extra face - select it and hit delete is the way to go.

Dimensions: Now that you mention hover text, this is possible - sort of. Bring up the Entity Info window (on the menus: Window, then Entity Info) and now if you select a line the length will be reported to you in this box.

I'm also going to butt in on some of your topics with PurpleLev. His advice is right on, as usual.

Components and Stickiness: Just being aware of when something is going to stick is your best option here. Say you have an entire table that has no components or groups. It's all stuck together. If you can manage to select just one leg (tiresome at best) you CAN make this a component and it will "unstick" itself from the model. You would likely have to clean up some stray lines inside the component after the fact - remnants of whatever it was stuck to. The better way is to make the table with components from scratch - nothing sticks to components. So make the top, make it a component. Then make a leg, component. Aprons/stretchers, components. By building on top of components you can model in place and nothing sticks together.

Half Laps: Here's my sequence to get a leg with a half lap, say 3x6 cross section and 30" long. Use the rectangle tool to draw one face - could be the 3x6, the 6x30, or the 3x30 - doesn't matter. Push/Pull to extrude the 3rd dimension, typing in the desired value and hitting enter. This is the leg blank. Use the line tool to draw one edge of the half lap - could either be a line across the top of the leg or across the wide face at the shoulder. Personally, I think it it's easier to draw the line across the top of the leg, since you can reference the midpoints and not have to measure anything. Then, push/pull the new face you just made to "carve out" the half lap, again typing the dimension you want instead of manually moving the mouse the exact distance. Clear as mud?

Whew, my fingers are tired!

[jhl.verona]

@Aaron

Stream of conciousness received loud and clear, thanks.

Components vs Groups: Seems you can convert a group into a component, but not vice versa. Hmm. I agree with the two components, but if I were to put the joints into the back rail, I'd need four groups...

Hollow Leg: Tried it, but didn't work. Probably because the leg is on an angle. Tried extruding in and out, but no joy. Something to watch out for perhaps.

Dimensions: Entity window, perfect thanks.

Components and Stickiness: Components (and groups) have electonic wax. Check.

Half Laps: Clear as crystal. Nice and simple.

Thank your fingers for me ;-)