Western Rip Saw

[Bobby Slack]

What should I get. This is purely for resawing timber.

Gramercy

Pax

Lie-Nielsen

The idea is to get good steel that can hold an edge.

[Jonathryn]

What should I get. This is purely for resawing timber.

Gramercy

Pax

Lie-Nielsen

The idea is to get good steel that can hold an edge.

By timber, do you mean great big logs? I've been using a 36" crosscut logging saw for some of that. It's not designed for that application but it has rakers, which sort of act like a rip saw. You can use a regular Western style rip saw for that too, but the crosscut I've got is really aggressive. A lot of people use a bandsaw or "neander buddy" as they like to call it, for resawing.

Lie-Nielsen's rip saw is a panel saw size, more suitable for small rips on a bench top.

I'm not aware of any Western-style rip saw available from Gramercy tools.

Pax/Thos. Flinn/Garlick/Lynx makes rip saws but the steel is soft.

For ripping, I think you're better off getting an old saw off ebay. If you must have a new saw, and have the dough, a Wenzloff saw might be advisable. What is the specific task?

[Bobby Slack]

Mostly this rip saw will be used for resawing up to 15" wide 5/4 walnut. I will start the process on the table saw and finish cut off with the hand saw.

At the same time, I have to cut to length about 9 pcs 12" square douglas fir posts and will never use the saw for this purpose again.

Have you heard anything bad about these?

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/24-Hand-Saw-7-TPI-Rip-Cut-Teeth-Germany/productinfo/521-0600/

By timber, do you mean great big logs? I've been using a 36" crosscut logging saw for some of that. It's not designed for that application but it has rakers, which sort of act like a rip saw. You can use a regular Western style rip saw for that too, but the crosscut I've got is really aggressive. A lot of people use a bandsaw or "neander buddy" as they like to call it, for resawing.

Lie-Nielsen's rip saw is a panel saw size, more suitable for small rips on a bench top.

I'm not aware of any Western-style rip saw available from Gramercy tools.

Pax/Thos. Flinn/Garlick/Lynx makes rip saws but the steel is soft.

For ripping, I think you're better off getting an old saw off ebay. If you must have a new saw, and have the dough, a Wenzloff saw might be advisable. What is the specific task?

[Jonathryn]

Oh yes, I see what you mean. Once you get a kerf stared with the table saw on both sides of that walnut, a sharp rip saw could do the rest. It'd be a workout, but if you took your time and used wax on the saw you could get through it. You'd probably want to saw it upright in a bench vise, with the tooth line of the saw horizontal. Walnut is nice to work too.

Most of the older rip saws are 26"-28" long, are taper ground, and usually come 5 - 5 1/2 TPI. For big long rips this does make a difference. I haven't heard anything bad about that particular saw. At 24" and 7 tpi you'll be chipping away at it for longer though, and since it isn't taper ground it's more likely to heat quicker. The induction hardened teeth would probably stay sharp a really long time though.

You could use any hardware store crosscut hand saw for the DF, like the Stanley Shark Tooth or whatever, though it's a surprisingly antagonistic wood. Again, you'll want to use plenty of paraffin wax (helps against friction as well as pine sap), and take breaks.

See, this is a real problem for people. They don't sell rip saws in hardware stores because there's not enough profit margin in it, or they want to hobble their customers into buying presawn lumber, or some sort of big equipment type saw. People don't want to buy a bent rip saw off of ebay from someone they don't know. Specialty saw makers charge $300 to make a saw right. Once I got an old rip saw, cleaned it up, and sharpened it, I thought, what the hey? Is it so hard to offer these? As I read further into it, making a really good saw isn't a simple matter, per se.

[Don Z.]

Call Bad Axe toolworks and tell them what you want to do. I'm sure he'll have a Disston with a Thumb hole, sharpened exactly the way you need...

[Bobby Slack]

Donn;

After calling my go-to hand tool supplier ... Lie-Nielsen ... and they are terrific. Then I double checked with Chris Schwarzzzz (amazingly he replied right away). Chris fine tuned the project.

I will speak again next Monday with Lie Nielsen. I will share the final specs of my custom saw with you guys when I place the order. The pricing I saw for older saws justified investing in a new saw ... Made in the USA.

[PaulMarcel]

Just to throw in another option. Medallion Saws are custom fitted to your hand based on a template you fill out with measurements. The teeth are set and raked according to the type of wood you typically work with. Made by hand by Ed Paik with whichever stunning wood you want for the handle. It's on my wish list; don't think it would be much more than a custom from LN. It stays on my wish list mostly cuz I'd just hit that puppy with a bandsaw (love that quote, Jonathryn: "neander buddy"). Not made in USA, made in Canada, which some of my Canadian relatives consider the 51st state so you decide

[Bobby Slack]

Paul Marcel.

Well, I am strange this way ... loyalty. Next time I look for a custom saw I will look for your option. Another reason for the huge saw is because this summer I have to cut to length some 12" x 12" posts for my handrails at my Colorado Cabin. The plan is to score the posts with my TS-75 and finish them off with the handsaw.

If I did would not have a need to cut these posts, probably I would have invested on a bandsaw.

Ah ... Made in Canada is also good buddy.

Just to throw in another option. Medallion Saws are custom fitted to your hand based on a template you fill out with measurements. The teeth are set and raked according to the type of wood you typically work with. Made by hand by Ed Paik with whichever stunning wood you want for the handle. It's on my wish list; don't think it would be much more than a custom from LN. It stays on my wish list mostly cuz I'd just hit that puppy with a bandsaw (love that quote, Jonathryn: "neander buddy"). Not made in USA, made in Canada, which some of my Canadian relatives consider the 51st state so you decide

[Bobby Slack]

Great post. Thanks. Looks like you know your way around hand saws. Since I am a hack and don't know what to look for I put my hands into LN. Plus with the info I get from you guys, add that and then order the saw.

I will use your advice for crosscutting the douglas fir. Those pieces are very heavy

Oh yes, I see what you mean. Once you get a kerf stared with the table saw on both sides of that walnut, a sharp rip saw could do the rest. It'd be a workout, but if you took your time and used wax on the saw you could get through it. You'd probably want to saw it upright in a bench vise, with the tooth line of the saw horizontal. Walnut is nice to work too.

Most of the older rip saws are 26"-28" long, are taper ground, and usually come 5 - 5 1/2 TPI. For big long rips this does make a difference. I haven't heard anything bad about that particular saw. At 24" and 7 tpi you'll be chipping away at it for longer though, and since it isn't taper ground it's more likely to heat quicker. The induction hardened teeth would probably stay sharp a really long time though.

You could use any hardware store crosscut hand saw for the DF, like the Stanley Shark Tooth or whatever, though it's a surprisingly antagonistic wood. Again, you'll want to use plenty of paraffin wax (helps against friction as well as pine sap), and take breaks.

See, this is a real problem for people. They don't sell rip saws in hardware stores because there's not enough profit margin in it, or they want to hobble their customers into buying presawn lumber, or some sort of big equipment type saw. People don't want to buy a bent rip saw off of ebay from someone they don't know. Specialty saw makers charge $300 to make a saw right. Once I got an old rip saw, cleaned it up, and sharpened it, I thought, what the hey? Is it so hard to offer these? As I read further into it, making a really good saw isn't a simple matter, per se.

[Bobby Slack]

Just finished speaking with Deneb. Ordered my custom made Western Rip Saw. 4 ppi or tpi (Recommended by Chris Schwarzzzzz). Price was under $ 300.00. I can't wait!

[jHop]

I recently purchased a 15" Stanley SharkTooth before reading this thread. Wishing I had held off a little longer, but at $24, I'm not regretting it too badly. (purchased from a local hardware store. Not as cheap as other locations, but I like to keep the local little guys alive more than I like shopping at BORG or BigBlue.)

My chief complaint about the Stanley is that, at 15", the stroke is fairly limited. Since I don't have a proper saw bench (I'm using a plastic crate right now), this isn't a big problem. It just means I have to bend lower to get to the wood. I typically kneel on the wood with one leg, and stretch the other waaaaaaaaay out. (I recommend stretching before cutting now.)

Since I'm fairly inexperienced with hand saws, could you define "taper ground"? (I tend to take the donkey/sledgehammer approach: if it doesn't work right right away, swear a lot, sweat more, keep going, and hit with bigger rock. Yes, I know I have a stubborn streak. Yes, I've sought help on it. Unfortunately, the therapy kit from Lee Valley hasn't arrived yet.)

[Jonathryn]

Back in the day, saw manufacturers would grind the sides of the saw, so that the portion where the teeth were was the thickest part of the saw, and the ridge along the top was the thinnest. So a cross-section of the saw would more resemble a very narrow triangle, with the teeth at the base. This does a number of things. First of all, the saw doesn't bind in the kerf as much. Secondly, if you're wandering from your mark, having a little extra maneuverability within the kerf (you can tip the saw left or right) allows you to correct for your mistake or uncooperative wood. Thirdly, a taper ground saw makes it so that you don't have to have as much set in the saw. That is to say, the teeth don't have to be splayed to either side as much. Less set=smaller kerf=less wood removal with each stroke=faster cutting. Some saws even had zero set and relied solely on taper grinding, such as the Disston Acme 120 and the Disston 77 type saws. I've found that for smaller panel-type (< 26-inch tooth length) saws, taper grinding isn't as critical, but it's a nice feature. One of the nicest benchtop panel saw types is a full-width 20-inch skewback Disston D-8 or similar. A full length hand saw should be 26 inches, and in that length and in the purposes for which you use something like that--rough dimensioning of stock, I find that the taper grinding makes a real difference.