Hand Plane Sharpening question

[JimB1]

I spent a fairly enjoyable evening last night sharpening tools with my new Veritas MKII guide (my Stanley Bailey chisels have never been sharper ) and had a few plane sharpening and tune up questions.

• What angle do you use for your planes? I went with 25 degrees based on the chart that came with the guide that said 25 - 30 for most bevel down planes.
  
• Do you do a micro bevel? I thought about it but didn't do it. At last years woodworking show I went to the sharpening seminar given by Graham Blackburn. He pretty much just said, spend as little time as necessary to get the tools sharp and get back to work. When someone asked about micro bevels he said he never used them because for the small benefit, it wasn't worth the extra time.
  
• I currently have 3 bench planes: #3 Stanley Bailey pre-war, #5 Stanley Bedrock, and Millers Falls #900 (similar to a Stanley #4 smoothing plane in size). The two Stanley's I can get fairly consistent, fine shavings after a sharpening but not what I could get from similar sizes in the Lie-Nielsen. The Miller's Falls is by far the touchiest. It can't get nearly as smooth a shaving as either of the Stanley's do . Any tuning tips or tricks I should try to get max performance from these? They are all usable as is but I want to make sure I am not missing any tweaks that would make them really work to their potential. Having played with a bunch of LN models yesterday I know what a good plane can work like now
  

I have been thinking about replacing the blades but the #3 has a sweetheart blade in it which most places online say is a really good blade already. It's an option though...

Let me know what you think.

Thanks

-Jim

[Bram]

To make very fine shavings, not only the blade must be very sharp (i guess yours are pretty darn sharp atm) but the sole of the handplane must be dead flat too.

I couldn't make paper thin shavings with my #4 stanley bailey even if the blade was extremely sharp, until i flattened the sole of the handplane on a piece of glass with 80 and 120 grit sandpaper attached to it.

[nateswoodworks]

I am suprised by Graham's statement about microbevel because the whole reason for micro beveling is to speed things up. When you use the MKII it allows you to micro bevel a couple degrees, raising it so that you are just honing the very tip not the whole bevel; thus making it much faster. In time the micro bevel will get wider and wider making the time it takes to hone longer so when that happens I just turn the knob back so the micro bevel is off and go to my coarse stone and continue until the micro bevel is just a narrow sliver again.

As for tuning your planes there is a lot of useful info all over the web, here is a video that gives you the basic walkthrough http://woodtreks.com/how-to-tune-up-a-hand-plane/19/ As for the Miller Falls, sorry but I have only Stanleys so I am in the dark on this one. Hope this helps.

[JimB1]

I am suprised by Graham's statement about microbevel because the whole reason for micro beveling is to speed things up.

Well, he was also advocating sharpening by hand not using a jig so I guess micro-beveling is a bit tougher to do by hand compared to getting the primary bevel...

I have flattened the soles and also the section of the chip breakers where they touch the blade to make a solid contact. I also flattened the area where the blade sits (not sure what that's called) so there is solid, flat contact along the entire blade.

I spent some time last night just seeing how thin I could get the shavings on each. The #3 is particularly good, like "making-papyrus-strips-the-width-of-the-blade-out-of-pine" good and the #5 was quite good but not to the level the #3 is. The Miller's Falls was just OK but rather then making thin shavings, it seemed to be like a switch going from reasonably thick curls directly to shred without getting the nice thin curls of wood in between...

It's possible they are just as good as I am going to be able to get them which is OK too.

Thanks for the video link, I'll see if I can get some more ideas from that...

-Jim

[Mister Pants]

I tend to sharpen to 25 or 30 degrees on my bevels. I do use a micro-bevel for the same reason Nate mentioned above, it's quicker on resharpenings. It takes longer at the outset, but after the setup you're only resharpening that little piece.

BTW, papyrus strips would have been kinda thick, I hope your #3 takes thinner shavings than that .

[jhl.verona]

I have seen great improvements when the chipbreaker is correctly bedded on the iron, and positioned very close to the blade edge. There are, however, some subtle differences between my Stanleys and Records.

For fine shavings, the Stanleys work best with the chipbreaker 1/16" or less from the edge, the Record (with stay set) needs to be a little further away.

I haven't found much difference playing with the position of the frog, and since it's a tricky thing to do (I don't have Bedrocks), I don't bother much these days.

Waxing the sole helps a lot too.

John

[Hans_Christopher]

Getting great shavings takes more then a sharp blade, though a sharp blade definetly helps a lot. Yes the sole needs to be flat and yes the chipbreaker needs to be set right but other things are a factor as well. The plane needs to be solid. This means that between all contact points between the frog and main body need to be seated properly as well the handle needs to be seated firmly as well. If there are any loose connections the plane will vibrate and this will cause chattering and the blade to skip on the surface. The fianl thing to check is the size of the mouth opening in a perfect world the distant from the front of the mouth to the cutting edge of the blade should be the thickness of the shaving you want to take, however becuase this is difficcult to achieve aim for the tightest you can get.

cheers

Hans Christopher

[JimB1]

Thanks for all the info.

I'm going to see if I can tighten up everything and wax the bases and take a look at the mouth opening.

Maybe try adjusting the chipbreakers to see if there are any differences in cutting from that.

Sorry, I've never been to ancient egypt so I assumed papyrus was thinner My #3 gets full width almost see through shavings in one piece. The #5 can get full width but not quite see through pieces. They both can get nicely curled pieces slightly thicker as well.

The Miller's Falls is the gremlin of the pack I guess, just can't seem to get nice shavings from it. However from what I gather, the #900 was the budget model when it was new so it's possible that this is just the way it is Might need to see if I can find an old Stanley #4 or maybe LN or Veritas (Maybe even a Stanley Sweetheart)...

I guess to some extent it's trial and error...

-Jim

[nateswoodworks]

After practice see through shavings will become easier and easier. I can read through my shavings with the factory blade and even better with a hock iron but I couldn't until i had some practice. I sharpen my standard iron to 25 degrees with a 2 or 3 degree micro and I have been playing around with back beveling one of my old irons for tricky grain but since I am still experimenting I'll keep the rest to myself!

[CessnaPilotBarry]

I normally use 25 degrees on bevel down irons, bevel ups vary. One of my Stanley smooth planes is set up with a back bevel, but I rarely use that plane now that I keep a bevel down set in the low 60's.

I don't use a microbevel any more . I've gotten to the point where I can freehand most of my plane irons and bench chisels. If the hollow grind is worn away enough to make sharpening take too long, I give the iron a quick grind to refresh the hollow. I keep one of my grinder rests set at 25 degrees, with MDF setup blocks handy for angles from 20-60 degrees.

FWIW, if you touch up sooner, rather than later, the hollow will last far longer. My touch up for planes is no more than 10 total strokes, on a 4000 and 8000 grit stone. I'll give chisels a few quick strokes on the 8000 while I work, and the hollows last and last. Carving stuff gets stropped continually in a similar manner.

Keeping the sharpening gear set up, available, and very near your hand work area, will facilitate always working with sharp tools. Make the touchups part of your ongoing work, not a separate activity.