dwacker Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 So this is your garage workshop you spray in? -Ace- I have a garage dedicated wood shop. A second three car attached that I paint my toys (cars) A new commercial build that will have two booths. I am happy to spray in any of the above but it doesn't make it right. You dont need a pro installed booth you just need common sense enough to do the research to learn how they work. You can build a booth out of 2x4's and plastic with wooden filter grids. It does not change the air requirements. I really dont see a 3 or 4 hundred dollar fan as much of an issue for a project of this nature. If you have the space for a dedicated spray room it makes no sense to make it unsafe when the cost difference to do it right is so small. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 PB, you mentioned "A booth of any type should move 100+ cfm per sq ft of the front open wall. ". So if I have a small room 10'Hx10'W but a small door measuring 7'Hx3'W does that mean I need to cover 100cfm/sf for the room (100sf) or the door (21sf)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 PB, you mentioned "A booth of any type should move 100+ cfm per sq ft of the front open wall. ". So if I have a small room 10'Hx10'W but a small door measuring 7'Hx3'W does that mean I need to cover 100cfm/sf for the room (100sf) or the door (21sf)? Its the sq ft of the door. BUT then you have a design flaw and you loose velocity and dilution for the size of the room. A spray booth is not just about moving contaminated air out of the room its about diluting the contaminations to a safe level. Your going to pull all your air from the door way and have dead spots. The reality is you should have air coming in one end and out the other but at the full width of the room. Id add a door next to the existing door and double its size if possible. WA WAC code does a good job of explaining explosive dilution but not so much for air quality. It gets complicated when you start looking at the formulas so its just easier to shoot for the entire or close to it free flowing front. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=296-62-11019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Any finish particles that are floating in the air and land on a wet surface get incorporated back into a the finish Is that true even for WB finishes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Is that true even for WB finishes? If a booth flows to much air the solvent evaporate to quickly and you end up with a sandy dry spray, doesn't happen very often if ever its usually a gun setting error. If it doesn't flow enough the wet overspray will not make it to the filter and will land back on the project creating a rough finish. You will ALWAYS get better flatter finishes off the gun in a properly designed booth vs a stagnant room or shop. No they will no just incorporate back into the finish. Once the finish begins to flash new over spray is a bump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Is that true even for WB finishes? Yes that goes for water-based finishes. They will melt in to a wet water-based finish. Think about it, it has to or what good is a spray finish if it cant. Nature of the beast. =>You will ALWAYS get better flatter finishes off the gun in a properly designed booth vs a stagnant room or shop......This is not true In my experience. You can apply a finish with a brush or a rag and it will flow out nice and smooth. Just depends what your applying. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Yes that goes for water-based finishes. They will melt in to a wet water-based finish. Think about it, it has to or what good is a spray finish if it cant. Nature of the beast. =>You will ALWAYS get better flatter finishes off the gun in a properly designed booth vs a stagnant room or shop......This is not true In my experience. You can apply a finish with a brush or a rag and it will flow out nice and smooth. Just depends what your applying. -Ace- A brush or rag does not come off a gun. Second no the finish will not melt into a partially flashed coat. this is why you spray is props sequense for your project. You would never spray the face of a door laying flat the spray the edges the finish on the face would be a bumpy mess. You shoot the edges then the face. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 A brush or rag does not come off a gun. Second no the finish will not melt into a partially flashed coat. this is why you spray is props sequense for your project. You would never spray the face of a door laying flat the spray the edges the finish on the face would be a bumpy mess. You shoot the edges then the face. Yes that is true that is why we spray the edges first, then the top surface. The key is to keep a wet edge. A wet finish is just that wet. Think of rolling paint on a wall. If you roll over a dry (cured - flashed) edge you will get roller marks. Same thing with a spray gun. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 At 1200 cfm if you go by the standards you can have a 3 ft by 4ft so if your very short person it will work fine. Spray booths are not complicated. There is loads of bad information but there is equal amount of good info to be had. Binks, compliant and any other booth manufacturer has plenty of info on their web sites that will help you put together a booth and you can do it on a budget. You may not get the smooth metal walls but even drywall is better than nothing. Haha! Thanks for sharing your vast knowledge and experience particle, I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Woodworking is dangerous proposition. Listen to PB, have a professionally installed spray booth and call it done. -Ace- I wish! Thanks for sharing your knowledge ace! I appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I have a garage dedicated wood shop. A second three car attached that I paint my toys (cars) A new commercial build that will have two booths. I am happy to spray in any of the above but it doesn't make it right. You dont need a pro installed booth you just need common sense enough to do the research to learn how they work. You can build a booth out of 2x4's and plastic with wooden filter grids. It does not change the air requirements. I really dont see a 3 or 4 hundred dollar fan as much of an issue for a project of this nature. If you have the space for a dedicated spray room it makes no sense to make it unsafe when the cost difference to do it right is so small. I agree. Do you have any recommendations of websites I could visit to learn more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I agree. Do you have any recommendations of websites I could visit to learn more? Just look at some booths and exhaust systems. You can easily see how they are made and duplicate one in a less expensive material. Below is a link to just an exhaust chamber. As you can see its just a box with a filter grid. The same company sells the proper filters. Take a look at their booths, most are just tin boxes for your purpose the box can be made from wood and sheet materials plastic, drywall, plywood the choice is up to you and your budget. If your going with a freestanding setup I would strongly suggest a manometer, they are very inexpensive and will give you a heads up to when your filters need to be changed. Door are a take it or leave it thing you can go without most shops dont use doors but on the other hand if your shop is dusty and you plan on making dust right in front of the booth while spraying then a door grid is just as easy to make as the back wall. The fan just get creative. The one I linked to earlier in the thread just took a real quick google search. That being said most of that design can be ducted with off the shelf tin right out an existing window. A word about plastic. Even WB finishes will degrade plastic they do have some solvents that over time will degrade your plastic so if this is something you are putting a bunch of time and effort in think about cheap 1/4" plywood or paneling. You may also consider painting the interior walls with latex to make them cleanable. Dry spray will build up on the interior walls and you dont want to bump a wall and have the dry spray dust fall into a fresh finish. Personally I would purchase a fan first to get the ducting worked out and build a filter grid wall. Once that was up and running Id add the side walls. If your shop is small I may even make the side walls knock down and just put them up as needed leaving the filter grid in place 24/7. The options are endless but it doenst have to be a complicated expensive project. The whole idea is to make a safe place to spray and enhance your ability to lay down a good finish. Once you get more experience you will find finishing very simple and will not have to deal with headaches like sanding between coats. Finishing is not an art nor is it complicated it just a process just like woodworking. http://thefinishpro.com/store/home.php?cat=269 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHop Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I would strongly suggest a manometer, they are very inexpensive and will give you a heads up to when your filters need to be changed. I'd hate to be told I wasn't man enough to change my filters... Jokes aside, do the knock-down booths offer less functionality than a fixed booth? Or is it just a matter of taping the seams and shoving it all into a closet when you're done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I'd hate to be told I wasn't man enough to change my filters... Jokes aside, do the knock-down booths offer less functionality than a fixed booth? Or is it just a matter of taping the seams and shoving it all into a closet when you're done? Its just a box so I guess that depends on how well you build the box and how well its assembled. The filter box is not something I would make knock down, just to much work. The booth just directs the flow of air and confines the contaminated air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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