WIll a french cleat work?

[Ben@FineWoodworking]

My wife wants me to build a single shelf to hang high on our wall in the living room.

She still hasn't seen the design I came up with today so this might all be moot.

I am planning a bookcase for the dining room and figured I could use this small project to get a few things figured out.

The top would just be a 60"X10" piece of (probably) cherry 3/4" thick.

The sides would be cherry and 2 1/2" tall 3/4" slanting down to 1/2" thick.

I figured I could build a french cleat into the back.

There is eventually going to be 5 vintage tube radios on display on top.

I am wondering if the french cleat would hold well. Ever time I have seen french cleats it was on larger pieces. Maybe the weight of the piece is what actually hold the cleats together?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Ben

[jhl.verona]

I don't think so personally...

I am wondering if the french cleat would hold well. Ever time I have seen french cleats it was on larger pieces. Maybe the weight of the piece is what actually hold the cleats together?

The French cleat works well on, say, display cabinets. Yes the weight holds it in place, but that's half the story. The height of the cabinet is also important as it creates a lever effect. The bottom of the cabinet is 'trying' to press into the wall, and the top is 'trying' to pull away from the wall.

If you reduce the height you also reduce the strength of the support - because there's more chance that the shelf (in your case) will droop, because it succeeds in crushing the bottom edge, or in pulling away from the top edge.

Floating shelves are very popular in Italy, though they (usually) have solid walls, so a a large steel dowel is used with the usual rawl plug into the wall - can't find anything in English, but here's a link - the picture says it all.

I'm sure there's something similar that you can insert into the wall studs.

John

[Ben H]

John's correct. The dowel rod is the best method.

You can make such a thing like this no metal though. I'll try to describe what I'm thinkin'.....

Let's say your floating shelf is 2" thick, and 10" deep. Length is not important, just add support as needed. Take a strip of really hard, strong wood like maple, ash, etc... This will be your mounting strip that would screw to the wall itself. One screw (NOT drywall a screw) per stud should be fine, making sure the shelf stops at a stud on each end.

Before the wall strip is mounted though, you'll need to create the dowel (doesn't have to be round though) studs that stick out from the strip. These pieces will slide in side the hollow cavities you'll need to create in the shelf itself. Go crazy will the joint here. Dado's and dowels, double dominoes, whatever, just build it extra strong, and make them plentiful. This is what is actually holding all the weight after all.

So basically you'll have a strip that is screwed to the wall with a bunch of slats sticking straight out 90 degrees from the wall. You'll have to build the shelf with the mortises for said slats to fit into - the tighter the better. Be sure not to glue this or it gets to stay with the house. Drill a small hole on the bottom for a screw in each slat. That will keep it tight against the wall, and keep it from sliding off the "frame" you have build and physically attached to the wall. You may want to create a recess in the back of the shelf so it covers the entire structure that is mounted to the wall.

If I've confused you, and that's very possibly, let me know. I'll try and draw a picture.

[Ben@FineWoodworking]

Exactly why I posted here.

Going to have to mull over this one for awhile. This was supposed to be one of those quick easy projects.

I'll let ya know what wind up doing. I like your idea Ben.

It's funny... when I was drawing it up I didn't even really think of it as a floating shelf... but it obviously is.

I might "unfloat" it a bit and make my life easier.

[PaulMarcel]

Since it is going high up on the wall, why not mount a strip like Ben suggested (fairly thick) although I'd likely do at most 3 screws into the studs, but go nuts if you want. Make the shelf hollow to the back, put it over the strip and put 3 countersunk screws in from the top into the strip. Nobody would see it, even the cleaning lady.

I'd also say you could go with just 1/2" ply on the top instead of buying 3/4 and 1/2 sheets. You'll certainly have some cut off strip of the 1/2". Glue that underneath the 1/2" top near the edge where you'll put the screws.

[Onboard]

... when I was drawing it up I didn't even really think of it as a floating shelf... but it obviously is.

It looks like some great ideas have already been posted. I can only share what I’ve found online.

Before I started a search the only mounting bracket I’ve seen for floating shelves is a metal strap with 2 or 3 metal tubes welded to the strap. The strap has holes for wall mounting into studs (unless you have a lath and plaster wall). The tubes slip into holes of the same diameter in the back of the shelf. You could mount (for each tube) two wood blocks inside the shelf with holes to accept the tubes. Or, I suppose you could do a single solid block of wood front to back with a hole in it. One block at the back and one at the front. Someone would have to weld a couple of metal tubes to an iron strap and spray paint it.

You could also do a wood version as Ben H explained. Quite a few of the ideas (not all shown in the links below) were similar to what Paul-Marcel posted. I also saw several versions of individual wall mounted rods like John suggested, although the rods are connected to flat plates with holes to screw to studs or I guess you could use toggle or molly bolts but you would have much lower load bearing ability.

Here are some links that show some different approaches to floating shelf bracket types.

One

Two

Three – Pay for plans.

Four

Five – Pictures of different mounting brackets. You can see the metal brackets I described above (painted black).

Six – Mainly look at the bracket they use. You could tack weld one of these brackets together with some metal channel (shallow).

Seven – The metal brackets I describe above (painted black).

Eight – You can download the archive which has a pdf, measured drawings and a couple of SketchUp files.

Nine – Click on Product Specs tab for drawings of the mounting bracket.

[Mike M]

I used a simple design for some floating shelves I built.

I drilled holes into the studs and screwed 8" x 1/2" lag bolts about 2 1/2" into the studs. I then cut off the heads. I made my shelves out of 8/4" stock and drilled 1/2" holes to line up with the bolts. I leveled the bolts by bending with a hammer and slid the shelf onto them. There was enough bite from the exposed bolt threads that it took a bit of work to get them off so I could finish them.

With 3 bolts in each shelf, there was no sag with over 100 lbs on the shelf. Eventually, I had to remove the shelves because we moved. A pair of vise grips replaced the bolt heads and I backed the bolts out with no trouble.

[kesac]

My wife wants me to build a single shelf to hang high on our wall in the living room.

She still hasn't seen the design I came up with today so this might all be moot.

I am planning a bookcase for the dining room and figured I could use this small project to get a few things figured out.

The top would just be a 60"X10" piece of (probably) cherry 3/4" thick.

The sides would be cherry and 2 1/2" tall 3/4" slanting down to 1/2" thick.

I figured I could build a french cleat into the back.

There is eventually going to be 5 vintage tube radios on display on top.

I am wondering if the french cleat would hold well. Ever time I have seen french cleats it was on larger pieces. Maybe the weight of the piece is what actually hold the cleats together?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Ben

I think you will be ok. Your shelf being 2.5" thick, and only 10" deep, I don't think it would be overly leveraged. I have several similar smaller shelves, holding books and electronics. I don't remember exactly what we put behind them, but I don't remember it being anything stouter than what you are suggesting. I would guess just some commercial brackets and they have been there for years.

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