wilburpan Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 A friend of mine asked me if I could make a cross that would hang on the wall for him. After considering a couple of design options, I thought making a simple cross, about 18" high, out of QSWO with the horizontal piece sitting a little proud of the vertical piece would be a good design. Al Navas helped me with thinking about some of the details, and he generously sent me some QSWO that he had as a gift. I am so grateful to him for doing so. Thanks, Al! So here it is. The joinery is not real sophisticated -- it's a simple lap joint, but the joinery and final prep of the surface was done completely with hand tools. The two things that were way easier than I thought it would be were fuming the oak with ammonia, and making shellac from scratch for the finish. For the fuming, I used regular household ammonia in a tub (by the way, the bottle may say "lemon scented", but it still smells like ammonia), and built a quick and dirty frame to hold the cross above the tub. The whole setup was stuck inside a contractors garbage bag. I rolled up the opening of the bag, and put a chunk of wood on it to keep it from opening, and left it in there for 2 days. The color change was clearly visible after just being in the bag overnight, and was quite dramatic after 24 hours. The shellac I used was seedlac from shellac.net. It was a simple matter of making a 1 lb. cut by mixing 1 oz. of the seedlac in 190 proof Everclear, letting it sit overnight, and straining it through some cheesecloth. I used a rolled up old t-shirt material to pad it on. The shellac dries so fast I got about 5 coats on in 15 minutes. Then I rubbed some paste wax onto the cross. I have more info about the Everclear and the seedlac on my blog. By the way, all the hand work was done with Japanese tools, which are not supposed to be used with ring porous hardwoods like white oak, as we all know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Nice project, Wilbur. Al is a gem! Great guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Payne Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Looks good Man! I had to google "fumed oak" and I learned something new.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted January 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Nice project, Wilbur. Al is a gem! Great guy! Al is a class act. He also sent me way more QSWO than I needed for this. Everyone should check out his website and blog. http://sandal-woodsblog.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBaiga Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 looks good wilbur. fuming is an amazing process. the grain alcohol shellac was also interesting. not surprised it dried faster, although a natured ethanol evaporates it leaves a water residue on the surface. if you didn't see that, then it probably got absorbed into the wood. just to clarify for folks that want to try this: 200 proof (100% Ethanol or Ethyl alcohol) is often called USP or Medical Grade alcohol. Of course the moment you often it, it starts to hydrate and will do so until ~95% ethyl alcohol (or 190 proof)...at which point it's grain alcohol or everyclear. These are natured alcohols. DNA from the box stores is 90% ethanol and denatured (rendered undrinkable) with 5% methanol and 5% isopropanol. Cost wise, DNA<Everclear<USP Ethanol. The same order for drying (evaporation) rate with DNA being the slowest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhl.verona Posted January 23, 2011 Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Amazing. You seem to be enjoying breaking all the rules... For the fuming, I used regular household ammonia in a tub (by the way, the bottle may say "lemon scented", but it still smells like ammonia), and built a quick and dirty frame to hold the cross above the tub. The whole setup was stuck inside a contractors garbage bag. I rolled up the opening of the bag, and put a chunk of wood on it to keep it from opening, and left it in there for 2 days. The color change was clearly visible after just being in the bag overnight, and was quite dramatic after 24 hours. Hmm. Everything I've read about fuming suggested that you need professional equipment, personal protection that would make a fireman proud, and that the household stuff was a non starter. Good job you didn't read those articles . You fumed outdoors I presume? Is it just Oak that can be fumed, or any open pore wood, or ay wood? The shellac I used was seedlac from shellac.net. It was a simple matter of making a 1 lb. cut by mixing 1 oz. of the seedlac in 190 proof Everclear, letting it sit overnight, and straining it through some cheesecloth. I used a rolled up old t-shirt material to pad it on. The shellac dries so fast I got about 5 coats on in 15 minutes. Then I rubbed some paste wax onto the cross. If I understand correctly seedlac is practically 'raw', with impurities (wax mostly) but at least the bits of twig have been removed. Costs about a third of the 'processed' dewaxed shellac here in Italy. You used chessecloth - the residue was so coarse? On the Italian forum an old nylon stocking seems to be the preferred filter. Over there some people had problems of the pad breaking up or tearing with use, but that might be because they use pumice stone to close the pores. Did you charge the pad with alcohol before loading the shellac? Dilute the later coats? Happy with the results? Problems wth the cold? By the way, all the hand work was done with Japanese tools, which are not supposed to be used with ring porous hardwoods like white oak, as we all know. So three impossible thimgs in one day. Where will you be dining? Milliways? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 DNA from the box stores is 90% ethanol and denatured (rendered undrinkable) with 5% methanol and 5% isopropanol. True, and methanol is highly toxic, so I really didn't want to have to deal with it if I didn't have to. But the thing about denatured alcohol is that the methanol content can be much higher than that 5%. The MSDS for Klean Strip denatured alcohol, which is what the borg near me carries, shows that that brand of DNA has 50-55% (!) methanol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Amazing. You seem to be enjoying breaking all the rules... Hi John, I did my fuming in my basement shop. That was fine. My wife, who has a bionic nose, didn't smell a thing. The only issue I had was when I was first opening the bag to check on the cross. As to the household vs. industrial ammonia issue, I read those reports on the internet, and recalled using aqueous ammonia in chemistry lab in college (I was a chem major) and my first thought was, "There's no way that stuff is coming into my house!" That's the sort of stuff I would only use in a hood. All the aqueous ammonia will do is speed up the process and cause damage to your corneas. It's a chemical reaction that causes the color change, so even though this is the first time I tried this, I think I remember enough chemistry to predict what would happen. If you have time to let the workpiece sit and bathe in the ammonia, the household ammonia should be fine. If you need to impart a color change in an hour, then you'll need the industrial stuff. If you have a large piece, the household ammonia should be fine. You'll just need a chamber big enough to house it, and time. Two other things that I think helped: First, a low flat container is better for allowing the ammonia to fume out. That's what I used. Think baking dish, not pasta sauce jar. Second, I bought the jug of ammonia the day that I used it. At less than $1.50 for a 64 oz. bottle, I don't see any reason not to use ammonia fresh out of the bottle. I saved the ammonia that I used, but next time it might take a little longer to fume a piece, in which case I'll get a new bottle. Oak is a good candidate for fuming because it contains a lot of tannic acid, which reacts with the ammonia to cause the color change. I don't think that the open pores have to do with the effectiveness of the fuming. Interestingly, the 2x material (some sort of spruce, pine, or fir) that I used for making the frame/platform that the cross rested on over the tub holding the ammonia also changed color by turning slightly yellow. The residue from the seedlac was really coarse. I used cheesecloth because I had some on hand, and all my stockings were in the wash. For the pad, I just rolled up some old T-shirt material. I didn't pre-charge it with anything, or fill in the pores. I just dipped the pad in the shellac and started applying. I was really happy with the results, and my friends were quite impressed with the finish. No issues with cold -- it's about 60º in my basement shop. Three impossible things in one day is nothing. The White Queen believed twice as many before breakfast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBaiga Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 True, and methanol is highly toxic, so I really didn't want to have to deal with it if I didn't have to. But the thing about denatured alcohol is that the methanol content can be much higher than that 5%. The MSDS for Klean Strip denatured alcohol, which is what the borg near me carries, shows that that brand of DNA has 50-55% (!) methanol. That's an odd formulation, but I must admit that my sources are lab grade materials...one of the perks of the job, lol! I don't blame you wanting to deal with as little methanol as possible and you bring up an excellent safety tip for others...Material Safety Data Sheets or MSDS...these exit for all chemicals and are readily available as per the US EPA Right-to-Know Act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBaiga Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 hey wilbur, found this at the BORG, Klean Strip Green Denatured Alcohol, 90-100% Ethanol plus methanol, methyl isobutyl ketone, ethyl acetate as the deanturants. price at the quart size is similar to the 50-50 ethanol-methanol DNA in the blue can. http://www.kleanstripgreen.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Hi Tom, That is better than the other stuff. Still, no methanol is better than 5% methanol and MIBK, I think. Plus, it's kind of cool to have Everclear sitting around the shop. By my calculations, with the seedlac I was using and the Everclear, I'm at about $25 a quart for the finish. That's more expensive than Arm-R-Seal, but less expensive than Waterlox. That's $14 more than if I use DNA, and paying $14 to not have methanol around is fine by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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