Keggers Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I've not had a real good day in my shop. It's time to sand my panel doors for our kitchen. I used my Festool ETS150/3 random orbital sander starting out with 80 grit paper. I sanded all the door fronts then switched to 120 grit. After sanding the 3rd door I noticed tiny pigtail shaped scratches all over my door. I checked the others and they all have them! I was very careful to not use too much pressure while sanding and I had my Festool vac turned down to it's lowest setting. I just don't understand how this happened. I'll now have to start all over and sand each door face by hand. Has anyone else had this problem? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSawitFirst Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I'm surprised you started with 80 grit. That's pretty aggressive and it can take a lot of 120 grit sanding to overcome the swirls. Is that your normal procedure? The pigtail swirls are a curious shape. I can imagine that they could be caused by rocking the sander but frankly, I've never experienced them so its only a guess. Sorry you're having troubles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 When you use a random orbit sander, you should just let the machine do the work, without adding too much pressure. The concept of the design is that the sander should be moving on the work piece at about 1 inch per second. Moving it too fast will give you those little piggies. I figured this out real quick when I was refinishing hardwood floors in multi million dollar houses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nayliner Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I'll be honest, I don't like the Festool sandpaper. I have found that it doesn't sand with the quality of other papers. I am making a jig right now to drill the dust holes in other paper to fit my ETS150/3. I have been trying some other paper and I am much happier with the results over the Festool rubin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterelli Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 80grit is good to start at if your using a hard wood like maple. 100/120 seems a bit too fine to get planer marks out for me. Popular on the other hand could possible start at 100. Also depends on the paper. I used Rubin up to 180. Brilliant 220 up I have had the same issues and quite frankly it really pi**es me off. I have a ETS125 and if I don't keep the sander moving at a faster pace than any other random orbit sander (prob 6+ different models) it leaves those pigtails. This is on Maple, soft or hard which I use everyday in my shop. ETS 125 has a 2mm stroke which in theory is suppose to leave a fine finish. Maybe, but I am not sold on it yet. Yours has a 3mm stroke so it's fairly close. My ETS125 is a year old, I use it about 2-4hrs a day, 3-6 days a week. So I think the break in period has happened. I searched up and down on the net to resolve those pigtails and have yet to find an answer. One guy had a major gripe about it and email the GM of FestoolUSA and he ended up having his sander replaced because it was defective. So my short solution is pick up the sanding pace, keep the pad level, make sure excess dust is being trapped in your paper. If you "roll" the sander around on edges, Miss Piggy is going to come out strong.. How fast? I'm at least 2x as fast as my dewalt random that I used for 5yrs. On paper - I am trying out this stuff http://www.2sand.com/1086/Mirka-Abranet-6-inch-Hook-&-Loop-Sanding-Discs-10-Pack.html (your size) So far I like it.. and this outfit sells good 9hole paper as well for 5"/6" festool sanders. Own by a woodworker/engineer who supports a lot of local woodworking clubs Best of luck and I hope you find a better answer than mine. -Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterelli Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 When you use a random orbit sander, you should just let the machine do the work, without adding too much pressure. The concept of the design is that the sander should be moving on the work piece at about 1 inch per second. Moving it too fast will give you those little piggies. I figured this out real quick when I was refinishing hardwood floors in multi million dollar houses. Freddy, unfortunately I found complete opposite with this problem/sander. Anything other sander, I agree..and my other orbits work this way as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keggers Posted February 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I've not had a real good day in my shop. It's time to sand my panel doors for our kitchen. I used my Festool ETS150/3 random orbital sander starting out with 80 grit paper. I sanded all the door fronts then switched to 120 grit. After sanding the 3rd door I noticed tiny pigtail shaped scratches all over my door. I checked the others and they all have them! I was very careful to not use too much pressure while sanding and I had my Festool vac turned down to it's lowest setting. I just don't understand how this happened. I'll now have to start all over and sand each door face by hand. Has anyone else had this problem? Thanks for all the answers. I did find a solution to my problem. I ran the door panels through my wide belt oscillating sander using 150 grit paper and it took all the blemishes out in two passes. I should have used the wide belt sander to start with, but I wanted a more hands on sanding experience. I may try moving the sander faster to see if that helps. I kept the sander nice and level with no more pressure applied than it took to guide it. If I still have the same problems, then I'm going to sell it on eBay and buy something else. To explain further, I'm sanding cherry that had some jointer chatter that had to be sanded out. That's why I started with a little more aggressive sanding grit. I didn't notice the swirls until I went to 120 grit. Again, thanks for all your comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterelli Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 sanding cherry, this shouldn't happen... It appears you did all the right steps too. Any slight pressure to the outside of the pad, pigtails will happen. At least with my festool. Mine maybe on sale as well. Best of luck! Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Freddy, unfortunately I found complete opposite with this problem/sander. Anything other sander, I agree..and my other orbits work this way as well. Im confused by what you're saying, this is classically a problem caused by random orbit sanders. You can check the woodworkers journal, winter 2011 page 19. "Moving the sander too fast or "scrubbing" with it will cause pigtails. Hand sanders are meant to be moved only about 1" per second." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlamulle Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Hey Keggers, I wanted to point out I read a horrible review of a Festool orbital sander on the Festool web site a month or so ago and without going into too much detail here, he had the same problem as yours and after reading his post Festool asked several questions and asked to see the sander. After examining it thoroughly it wound up being a bearing that had prematurely locked up in the tool. Festool checked it out and replaced it for free with much apologies. Don't sell it before contacting them and making sure it's not a similar problem. Even a Mercedes has a problem now and then. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keggers Posted February 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Hey Keggers, I wanted to point out I read a horrible review of a Festool orbital sander on the Festool web site a month or so ago and without going into too much detail here, he had the same problem as yours and after reading his post Festool asked several questions and asked to see the sander. After examining it thoroughly it wound up being a bearing that had prematurely locked up in the tool. Festool checked it out and replaced it for free with much apologies. Don't sell it before contacting them and making sure it's not a similar problem. Even a Mercedes has a problem now and then. Dave Thanks for the info, Dave. I'll contact them tomorrow and see what happens. I've already contacted them once before with the same problem and the customer sevice rep that emailed me couldn't figure out what the problem was. I responded to his email and I never heard another word from him. Festool makes some great stuff, but I'm sure not happy with this sander. I'll finish sanding my cabinet doors with my wide belt sander and a good ole sanding block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterelli Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Im confused by what you're saying, this is classically a problem caused by random orbit sanders. You can check the woodworkers journal, winter 2011 page 19. "Moving the sander too fast or "scrubbing" with it will cause pigtails. Hand sanders are meant to be moved only about 1" per second." Mag articles are just another opinion! so I really don't count on them as 100% right. If the engineer that designed the tool said so, I'd have more faith. But won't argue this topic, it's up to the reader to choose. No, it's not what I said. My point was with Festool orbit sander. I have several others and have used most of the common brands without this issue. And yes, about 1 second per inch or so worked just fine with my last dewalt and bosch orbits. I went for the Festool because of all the high marks it got from people using it. Complete opposite has happen with me. I never got pigtails before with other brands even if I move the sander too fast. What you get are scratches that you now need to grit down one and start over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Keggers, Sorry to hear about your struggles. If you hear anything from Festool let us know. I've always liked to judge a company by how it reacts to a problem. Take care, and good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nateswoodworks Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Very interesting. I have had the same sander for a couple years now and love it. I rarely use anything under 120 and have never had an issue with it. I replaced my PC sander with this and before that I had a Dewalt, neither came close to my Festool. Hope you get it figured out soon, must be very frusterating. Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keggers Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 So my short solution is pick up the sanding pace, keep the pad level, make sure excess dust is being trapped in your paper. If you "roll" the sander around on edges, Miss Piggy is going to come out strong.. How fast? I'm at least 2x as fast as my dewalt random that I used for 5yrs. Well, I took a deep breath and sanded another door panel with my Festool sander - moving it a little faster while still just using enough hand pressure to control the direction of travel. I paid very special attention to my speed and to keeping the sanding pad level with the work piece. I'm happy to say that I didn't get ANY pigtail swirls. I sanded all my doors using this same technique and all went very well. Thanks for the suggestion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keggers Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Very interesting. I have had the same sander for a couple years now and love it. I rarely use anything under 120 and have never had an issue with it. I replaced my PC sander with this and before that I had a Dewalt, neither came close to my Festool. Hope you get it figured out soon, must be very frusterating. Nate Hey Nate, I think I did figure out the problem. Poor technique resulting in operator error on my part. I'm glad I didn't follow through with my first impulse which was to throw the sander across the shop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterelli Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Well, I took a deep breath and sanded another door panel with my Festool sander - moving it a little faster while still just using enough hand pressure to control the direction of travel. I paid very special attention to my speed and to keeping the sanding pad level with the work piece. I'm happy to say that I didn't get ANY pigtail swirls. I sanded all my doors using this same technique and all went very well. Thanks for the suggestion! Keggers, Happy you got it to work for you. Most importantly it finished the job to your expectations.. which in the end is all that matters. Glad it worked. -Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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