Onboard Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 try this insted of the elbo www.monster-wood-tool.com much better system Why is it that the good stuff always costs so much more? I should ask?! Thanks Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onboard Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Well, there is a ridiculous amount of tear out in that picture. Maybe they replace the drudgery of hollowing with the drudgery of sanding? I guess the PR guy wasn’t looking when they took the photograph. Always a wise guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger T Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 OB, Just like everything else, you get what you pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger T Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 OB, There are lots of different ways to get into hollowing. Keltons, the Jameson system, home made. For a long time I just had the Keltons. They work well but like anything else, there is a learning curve to them. Get some 5/8" cold rolled steel rod from the depot, and order some 3/16" hss cutters from Enco or someplace similar and make some hollowing tools. Sure, you wont have a laser, but a decent pair of vessel calipers will get you going. And you will have only spent $30 or so to get started. Something to think about. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onboard Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Roger, have you ever tried any of the Glaser HiTec tools? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger T Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 OB, No, I have not tried those yet. They are darned spendy, and I am sure really fine tools. But, on the other hand, for the same kind of money they get for one of their gouges, I can get 2 or 3 of Doug Thompson's tools. The guys that have the Glaser tools speak very highly of them, and also, the guys that have the Thompsons speak highly of them too. For me, right now, its all about economics. I find it very hard to spend that much on one gouge, when I can buy more from another manufacturer, that will do the exact same job. All that to say, its not so much about the tool, but rather, how its used. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbarton22 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 What about the costs of the handles? You have to add $50+ to any of these tools. That is actually the kicker for me. Are any of these that much better than a Robert Sorby tool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger T Posted August 31, 2011 Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 You dont have to buy their handles. Get a hunk of maple or whatever kind of hardwood you have on hand and make your own. I tend to not like a heavy handle. But thats a personal thing. I do tend to think the Glaser and Thompson tools have a better grade of steel in them. They have done so much with metalurgy in the last few years. Right now, I think maybe the 15V is the go to metal for gouges. Its almost like talking religion or politics when you bring in tooling and steel. I would much rather have a gouge that gets sharper and the edge doesnt last as long, as a gouge that will not get as sharp, but stays at its level of sharpness longer. Plain and simple, some steel gets sharper than others, and some stay sharp longer, its finding the balance of the 2 thats suits your personal style. Did any of that make sense? Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbarton22 Posted August 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2011 Makes sense, but it is still a little, well, in the clouds for me. I get it that if I buy the Harbor Freight gouges and then a Robert Sorby or Pinnacle, that it is like using tin foil vs real steel. But I guess I wonder how dialed in you have to be to tell the difference between one $100 gouge and other. You said before that as you go on, you end up with a wide collection of tools. are some of those purchases simply out of curiosity? As in you just want to try a Sorby 1/2" bowl gouge versus a Thompsons 1/2" bowl gouge? I understand that it is like arguing religion, but are the differences THAT drastic? You say you would rather have a sharper edge than hold the edge longer, but are you talking about 15 seconds or an hour longer? I guess I don't have any scale to comprehend your comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbarton22 Posted September 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Update: Roger-- Thanks for the help. I finally got down to the shop today to try your advice. I spindle turned a weed pot. I was much more diligent about my process and making sure I had sharp tools. I produced a fine little vase for myself. The form was average at best, but now I have much more confidence with that version of end grain. This weekend we go back to plates/bowls and see where that takes us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger T Posted September 1, 2011 Report Share Posted September 1, 2011 Makes sense, but it is still a little, well, in the clouds for me. I get it that if I buy the Harbor Freight gouges and then a Robert Sorby or Pinnacle, that it is like using tin foil vs real steel. But I guess I wonder how dialed in you have to be to tell the difference between one $100 gouge and other. You said before that as you go on, you end up with a wide collection of tools. are some of those purchases simply out of curiosity? As in you just want to try a Sorby 1/2" bowl gouge versus a Thompsons 1/2" bowl gouge? I understand that it is like arguing religion, but are the differences THAT drastic? You say you would rather have a sharper edge than hold the edge longer, but are you talking about 15 seconds or an hour longer? I guess I don't have any scale to comprehend your comments. Scott, Over the years that I have been turning, I have developed a tactile feel for when the tool is not as sharp as it should be. With more experience I believe you will develop the same sense of when you need to resharpen. When you are comparing apples to apples tho, I think a lot of it comes down to how the tool is behaving with what you are attempting to do. Some gouges/grinds do some jobs better. A wide collection of tools, yep, I'm guilty. Some is intrigue by a certain tool, maybe something you read on the innerweb, maybe one of your buddies talking up a particular tool. Some are simply what will fit into your current budget. Case in point the pinnacle tools vs Thompson's vs Glaser. Cheap, middle of the road, and oh my gosh you're kidding me ranges. My 2 big 5/8" gouges I use for roughing are a real good example for this. One is made with 2030 steel, the other is 2060 steel. Very durable steels for edge holding abilities. The 2030 gets sharper than the 2060, but the 2060 holds its edge longer. I will grab the 2030 gouge almost everytime over the other simply because its sharper than the 2060. Granted, they both cut wood, but it takes less effort on my part to get the 2030 gouge to do what I want it to do. When I am doing a bunch of roughing, I use both of these tools. Usually starting with the 2030, and when that edge needs sharpening, I just drop it and grab the other and use it till the edge starts to go. Both get sharpened at the same time. You have to remember tho, I am moving massive amounts of wood while doing this, and this will truly test the edges of any tooling. Cutting lots of bark along the way which is tough on the edge. I can probably cut for 5 or 10 minutes longer with the 2060, but I cant achieve the same level of finish with it. Its like trying to shave with a brand new razor, and shaving with one that has been used a few/bunch of times. Here is a little challenge for you. Take 2 more or less identical pcs of wood, medium sized or so. Turn the first one using only your favorite bowl gouge that has just been sharpened before you started to completion. Now take that second chunk, and turn the same form, but stopping to sharpen a few times during the piece. And also, sharpen right before you make that last finishing cut on the form. Compare how the tools feel as you are making these, compare the finishes on the pcs. You will develope a feel over time. You should always resharpen for that last finishing pass on any piece. Hope this helps. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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