dwacker Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 You said a shop full of huge Powermatic tools would be a mediocre and limited shop...yeah, maybe if you're in the world of production work and trying to pump out a hundred units of this or that a day. I don't feel mediocre or limited at all, and I don't have ANY huge tools. In the world of the hobbyist, it's about doing things well, not necessarily doing things efficiently. I think you miss the point that limited tools require much more skill. I have those tools, the shop full of big Powermatics and admit they are very limiting and require more skill than production equipment. That being said a shop full of little starter hobby tools requires once again even more skill to get the same job done. Hobby or not wether your making one table for grandma or 20 for a customer. Personally I could never imagine being limited to use a router table or chisel and heaven forbid a hand plane, I just don't have the skills. No way I would make a tenon on a table saw, that would be one screwed up tenon. Just giving credit where credit is due. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 My point is that they're only limiting within the factor of time. We all know you could make a tenon on your table saw in five minutes and it would be square and would fit into a mortise. It's not rocket science, it just takes practice...and by practice, I mean doing it once. You may not be able to do 500 tenons as fast as the guys with the production shop, but you can do them as well or better on your little 3hp saw...or 5hp in your case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 My point is that they're only limiting within the factor of time. This is an important point. A lot of it comes down to are you willing to trade dollars for minutes. That's a very personal choice to be honest. Some people will derive a lot of enjoyment out of doing something with hand tools or by building the perfect jig to do it on their limited tool, and others will see all of that as a huge waste of time when <insert expensive machine here /> does it instantly and better. To each his own...it's a hobby...everyone should enjoy it in their own way for their own reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 My point is that they're only limiting within the factor of time. We all know you could make a tenon on your table saw in five minutes and it would be square and would fit into a mortise. It's not rocket science, it just takes practice...and by practice, I mean doing it once. You may not be able to do 500 tenons as fast as the guys with the production shop, but you can do them as well or better on your little 3hp saw...or 5hp in your case. Give yourself some credit. I can take a guy off the street that the only wood he has ever touched is in his pants and have him building cabinets and learn every station before the end of one work day. He is now a cabinet maker. Take that same guy and give him a shop full of hobby tools or big Powermatics and a few days and tell him to make a few cabinets I'll lay money on the fact the cabinets will be screwed up and he may even have a couple missing fingers. Everything you learn is a new skill. Cutting plywood is a good example. I can cut plywood for days all day perfectly on a cabinet saw. Most folks can't do this until they learn, once they do they have a new skill. Any moron can learn to do that in minutes on a panel saw. On the other hand if all you have is a tiny saw you are limited to other means like a jig and circular saw. Production speed aside all of them get the job done but a circular saw and jig really take more skill. It requires some thinking and a brain to know how to square up that panel and set that jig just right. You will never match the speed of a production shop but I assure you most hobby folks have more learned skills than that production workers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Fair enough and point conceded. But I still take issue with a shop full of big Powermatics being "limited"...at least in the hobby world, which this forum basically is. A fully automated shop that a guy off the street can build cabinets with by the end of the day is great if selling cabinets is your goal. But most hobbyists enjoy the excrutiating minutiae of process...we're tips and tricks collectors, and working on that collection is an integral part of the fun for most hobbyists to one degree or another. Sorry for the thread hijack...I'm off to go trick or treating with the kiddos and have some beers with buddies. See y'all later tonight when I'm good and drunk and full of chili! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 PB is right on, and he meant that as a compliment to hobby woodworkers, not an insult. I don't believe he meant that limitations is what we as hobbyist can do in the sense of what we make. Once we put our minds to it, we find a way to make it happen. I tihnk the limitation he is referring is more of quantity limitation vs. a quality limitation. With a shop full of Powermatic tools you can make anything any production shop can make. The production shop has the ability to make that same items many times over in a short period of time. Again, I don't see PBs remarks as an insult to hobby woodworkers, and agree with what he is saying. In fact, it is appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Haha no worries Eric. I am always up for a lively discussion. I'm not a thread nazi and make everything about me and if it goes of topic I report you So no worries. I'm so new pretty much everything yall say I learn from haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 My intensions were good. I'll leave you with some eye candy but remember it won't make you a better woodworker. Careful mustard will blind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hahahaha. I like your watermark great looking shop though!!! Are you a fan of PM or just wanted to keep the color scheme the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Ooooohh, pretty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Boland Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 I agree with Chet, and keep your soap box it serves you well. For me personally I have tried to keep the quality of my tools just ahead of my skill development. Mostly this meant I bought the best I could afford. I was able to build some good stuff with a $100 plastic case direct drive table saw. It's just that I found I was spending most of my shop time building a fixture to compensate for the crappy saw, but it will work. There's nothing quite like the feeling you get when you use a high quality tool. It saves time, does a better job and just feels good. So bottom line is everyone should do their own research and choose the best tool you can reasonably afford for the work YOU do. And who cares if you want to buy the most expensive tool you can find and just set it on your bench when your neighbor comes over. Go for it. Keep the saw dust flying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefmagnus@grics.net Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 I like the shop. But you must spread a little dust around. I did not see at all. You must have a great dust collection system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Hahahaha. I like your watermark great looking shop though!!! Are you a fan of PM or just wanted to keep the color scheme the same? Had to do that. Found some moron claiming my shop as his, dumb ass even did a voice over on my tour video. Found that table on etsy and on a blog with the idiot even explaining how the center post was carved from a single piece, it's not. Found it on another site with a step by step explanation. No it was just much easier to get all PM and have it delivered on one truck. The DC is a green cyclone but it's out back like a red headed step child. Not really its outside mounted up high on the gable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted November 1, 2014 Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 You don't have to worry about Don's DC...it'll suck the dentures outa your face. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted November 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2014 Had to do that. Found some moron claiming my shop as his, dumb ass even did a voice over on my tour video. Found that table on etsy and on a blog with the idiot even explaining how the center post was carved from a single piece, it's not. Found it on another site with a step by step explanation. No it was just much easier to get all PM and have it delivered on one truck. The DC is a green cyclone but it's out back like a red headed step child. Not really its outside mounted up high on the gable. Oh wow that's crazy!! He went all out in ripping you off it sounds like. I was wondering where all the hoses went to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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