toddclippinger Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 This may not help on this particular project, but for future reference: One thing I make clear up front is that changes to the agreed design cost money. This helps to deter clients from changing their mind even on simple things like stain and paint color. They usually understand that large changes will incur an extra charge, in my experience it often is the simple stuff like color that they start to vacillate on. In their mind they are thinking, "How hard can it be? He hasn't stained it yet. He can just pick up a can of the new color." What they don't understand is the work it takes to get the custom color scheme figured out. Then you have to go through the process again. When I look at the table in the picture, I see an orange color base with a darker stain on top and hung up in the distressing. I would definitely do some test boards and would probably do an orange dye followed by the stain. The first color that hits the material ends up being the background or base color. I am not familiar with how the General Finishes stains handle since we do not have a local dealer, but I don't think you could replicate that with Minwax because of the way it takes. I use Sherwin Williams and ML Campbell wiping stains and I know that I could nail it with those on top of some dye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted April 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Thanks Todd! By the way I have watched some of your videos and you do mazing work! I also have the same clause and it may have sounded like they really changed something, but it was more that they finally decided on a color. I had my mind made up on the color we discussed in the beginning. So it was less of an actual change than it was a change to my ideas in my head :) I think the straight orange base is a great idea. Having limited experience with dyes I am nervous using a base color and going over the top because its hard for me to visualize. But I am going to order the dye stain now and start some test boards. I love learning new techniques. I'm still about two weeks from starting the finishing so I want to have it hammered out when by the time I get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddclippinger Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 15 minutes ago, Jason Hotze said: Thanks Todd! By the way I have watched some of your videos and you do mazing work! I also have the same clause and it may have sounded like they really changed something, but it was more that they finally decided on a color. I had my mind made up on the color we discussed in the beginning. So it was less of an actual change than it was a change to my ideas in my head :) I think the straight orange base is a great idea. Having limited experience with dyes I am nervous using a base color and going over the top because its hard for me to visualize. But I am going to order the dye stain now and start some test boards. I love learning new techniques. I'm still about two weeks from starting the finishing so I want to have it hammered out when by the time I get there. Thanks for the kind words Jason. Good to see you are covering yourself with the changes clause, I definitely learned that one the hard way. Over the years, on most things that I am matching I noticed that there are usually 3 different background colors under the stain: orange, yellow, or one that I can hit with Transtint dye Honey Amber. Whatever color is absorbed into the wood first, ends up becoming the background color. Sometimes I have stained the project and found it needed a little more orange or yellow to it and have been able to get it to take. But then I needed to stain it again. I use the wiping stains as I mentioned earlier. They do not handle like oil base stains, they have "hotter" solvents in them more like lacquer thinner and so they absorb differently than oil based stains. Looking at the picture I think the products I use would allow for that look. Projects like this can be a lot of fun, it always has been the new challenges that engage me with the projects. The more you play with the dyes and stains you will also develop your eye for color. You will be amazed at how differently you pick up on subtle tints and shades of color in both paints and stains as you study your sample boards, and how things change under varying light conditions. You might find a need to have good full spectrum lighting to nail the colors down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted April 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Yes the lighting is an issue I run into in my shop (very large garage). I try to pull it into the driveway if possible. I have been having this argument with my wife as I sometimes think she works for Minwax. Not to put their product down but the more I get into the "fine" furniture building circles the more I see that almost no one of experience uses them. For this particular product she thinks I should slap some stain and let the blotchiness be the character... Im having a hard time agree to that and I think that using dyes would be a great time for me to learn how to do it. Plus I wanted to spray it because hand staining this 8' by 40" table is not what I would call a great time.. If only I had more time to do this stuff. My "day job" in the Marines takes up so much time! haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I'll say from experience to definately practice with the GF dyes. I hand applied but found the dark orange to be HOLY CRAP orange as a base. I ended up mixing up a custom ratio to get the right tones I wanted. What's your mos Jason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted April 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 That's good to know Brendon. I ordered the Medium brown as well so ill try a few mixed as well. I am a 6176 MV-22B Osprey Crew Chief. Been doing it about 11 years and cant complain. Just recently started working at HMX-1 The Presidential Support Squadron. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 That just gave me the UGS. First time I ever went up in an osprey was a puddle jump from Fallujah to Baharia, I lost my lunch when the rotors started tilting. Crew thought it was hilarious. It was an MRAP from then on for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted April 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Haha yep I've had many a lost lunch in the cabin. I've gotten pretty good at seeing it coming now and make the Marines throw up in their Kevlar.. I got tired of cleaning dip spit and vomit up quite a few years ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 12 minutes ago, Jason Hotze said: Haha yep I've had many a lost lunch in the cabin. I've gotten pretty good at seeing it coming now and make the Marines throw up in their Kevlar.. I got tired of cleaning dip spit and vomit up quite a few years ago... Woah woah.. I said I lost my lunch, my dip stayed perfectly intact. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted April 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Haha I have someone at least once a month ask me how I can dip and fly... It's amazing what your body can get used to.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddclippinger Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Jason Hotze said: That's good to know Brendon. I ordered the Medium brown as well so ill try a few mixed as well. I am a 6176 MV-22B Osprey Crew Chief. Been doing it about 11 years and cant complain. Just recently started working at HMX-1 The Presidential Support Squadron. Thanks for your service man! I used to be a combat engineer and was Air Assault Cadre at Ft Hood. But that was a long time ago. When I was cadre someone came up with this idea to slide down the rope like a fire pole instead of rappelling out of the helicopters. We were braiding 9 ropes together for the feasibility study, and testing. After I got out they had adopted the fast roping technique but used a manufactured line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted April 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Yea I got to go to Airborne school back in 08. It was a pretty good time. I remember the Air Assault school would run around the base in this weird marching run and just yell "AIR, ASSAULT... AIR ASSAULT..." I'm cadence with their steps. It was weird. At least in regard to how marines do cadence haha. I really wanted to try pathfinder school but the cheapo Marine Corps said nope!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddclippinger Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 12 minutes ago, Jason Hotze said: Yea I got to go to Airborne school back in 08. It was a pretty good time. I remember the Air Assault school would run around the base in this weird marching run and just yell "AIR, ASSAULT... AIR ASSAULT..." I'm cadence with their steps. It was weird. At least in regard to how marines do cadence haha. I really wanted to try pathfinder school but the cheapo Marine Corps said nope!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I don't ever remember running around yelling Air Assault as you described. But Ft Hood was known for having one of the toughest to get into, the standard dropout rate was over 50% My company would not let me go to air assault school because they said it was unnecessary. So I requested personal leave time, went to the school, graduated top of the class, then I got to attend rappel master school and become an instructor. They treated it like jump master school since you can wreck a helicopter or mess people up pretty good if the rigging isn't right. Permanent orders never came through for me to get permanently attached to III Corps training where I would have got my airborne/ranger/and pathfinder training slots and so I ETS'ed. I had a love-hate relationship with the army. We had some marines come through air assault. Quiet, tough, smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Hotze Posted April 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Yea when we go to army schools we just tell people to shut up, finish and don't get too drunk haha Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Jason Hotze said: Yea when we go to army schools we just tell people to shut up, finish and don't get too drunk haha Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk And that order, we happily disregard getting plastered at every chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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