Cabinetry

[KRAM121881]

So I currently work part time in a small one full time, and me part time kitchen/bath cabinet shop. The guy I work for is looking at getting out of it soon and I would like to take it over. I know that many people don’t look at cabinet shops as wood working but I want to expand things and start doing some custom furniture work as it comes along. The guy has been doing it for years and a few years back he went invested in a number of pocket hole jigs and since has put almost everything together that way. All of his face frame and attaching the face frame to the cabinet boxes. No one has ever complained and the finished product looks good.

What are some other people using to put face frame together and attaching it to the boxes?

Seems to me that mort. & ten. would work, but would be way more work with the end result being better craftsmanship.

Any input and discussion on cabinetry would be awesome.

Mark

[Beechwood Chip]

You could offer M&T as a more expensive alternative, and then explain that you didn't really think it was worth it.

• People will trust you because you didn't try to talk them into getting the M&T
• People will be more comfortable paying for other extras because "they saved money by not getting the M&T"
• Some people might decide to get the M&T because they want everything top quality
• People will be impressed by your knowledge of joinery and that you give them options

[Rick LoDico]

For a face frame, pocket holes will work just as well as M&T. They are rock-solid and there's no stress on them in the finished product. I just Kregged a face frame for a broom & mop cabinet I'm building. The pic also shows the door stiles clamped on for measurement purposes. The face frame is Kregged to the top and bottom where they won't be visible and the stiles are glued to the sides.

[cosmocyb]

I like what Beechwood said, I came from the Kitchen/bath side of the industry. A lot of cabinet companies offer M&T only in the premium line of cabinets. I found this to be true for cabinet companies such as Dura Supreme, Medallion, Diamond and Fieldstone just to name a few. Most of these companies offer M&T in their painted lines of cabinets and also in their multi-profiled 3/4" solid panel doors and in wall cabinetry 42" to 60" in height.

As a custom shop, you should have options too. but the object here is not to kill yourself. As my old college professor said, "KISS- keep it simple stupid" Limit options to a small few. Less headaches for you and your customers.

[Lawrence Brown]

As Rick and the others said, pocket screws for Face frames are perfectly acceptable. There are times when screws are the best way to go. The trick is to know when those times are and to do it deliberately, not as a shortcut where something else would be better. Take, for example, Greene & Greene furniture. A lot of those lovely ebony plugs were not through tenons. They were covering up screws! That doesn't make the furniture any less spectacular. It was just the best (and probably fastest and strongest) way to put the pieces together.

Face frames are hard to do because of the way the wood is oriented, so pocket screws are probably going to give you a stronger and longer-lasting join than most other methods. As long as none of those screws show, it's perfectly fine. Remember that even fancy furniture will routinely use lesser woods and simpler methods on unexposed surfaces, such as backs and the insides of drawers. The money goes where it's going to get noticed. If you really want to get fancy, you can plug the pocket holes with a contrasting wood and sand the whole thing flush. Then you can say "See, I meant to do that!" And call it your own style.

And lastly, never forget that even our great mentor Marc has used pocket screws on occasion, but don't tell anyone!

[Bobby Slack]

It sounds like you are well versed on each method. Use the right tool for the right application ... use the right joint for the right application ... and client. Some clients just don't care, why waste caviar on a customer who wants doritos?

[BillN]

For a face frame, pocket holes will work just as well as M&T. They are rock-solid and there's no stress on them in the finished product. I just Kregged a face frame for a broom & mop cabinet I'm building. The pic also shows the door stiles clamped on for measurement purposes. The face frame is Kregged to the top and bottom where they won't be visible and the stiles are glued to the sides.

For face frames, having a Kreg setup is the way to go. Why have an M&T joint when you don't need to go through the effort? All of the artistry adn finesse of a beautiful M&T joint is lost in a normal face frame situation. Use the pocket hole appraoch and save the time for the doors and drawers or maybe edgeband the countertop where the artistry will show.

[DALSAW]

My Kreg machine is the most used machine in my shop (well except my tablesaw). I use it for building everything on a cabinet, face frames,Boxes, and drawers,(except for when the customer wants dovetails on the drawers). But most of the customers don't really care how the cabinets put together, just as long as its sturdy and looks nice. Just try to put the pocket holes where they don't show, the plugs don't really look good.