New - General Finishes Water-Based "Wood Turners Finish"

[AceHoleInOne]

General Finishes Click Here

Was over at Fine Woodworking last night. Appears, General Finishes has a new water based product soon out for wood turners. Have a look. I believe it's a wiping type/friction finish.

Both Woodcraft and Rockler should be selling it shortly.

-Ace-

[mlehikoinen]

interesting. I wonder if Lee Valley will be carrying it in Canada. GF products are generally not available in Canada otherwise (at least AFAIK - please correct me if I'm wrong!).

[sbarton22]

Are friction finishes any good? I've been researching for about a week, and the best I can come up with is 50/50... people either like them or think they are the worst thing ever.

[AceHoleInOne]

Hey Barton:

I'm no big time turner, however, I usually finish my bowls and such off the lathe. One day, I was playing around on the lathe spraying some water-based finish to a spinning piece and got too heavy. So I used a paper towel to wipe things back. The finish seemed to work into the wood rather nicely. Not really "friction, friction" say as one would with heat from friction. Just think of it as applying with a rag and it just drys in seconds. A guy a commented about that "friction" thing at Fine Woodworking.

General Finishes must of figured something out with this new product!

-Ace-

[AceHoleInOne]

At another forum I belong to, they were asking for 10 people to try the new General Finishes Wood Turning Finish and reply back with any feedback and thoughts on the product!

Mine just arrived. Can't wait to run it through its paces. I also want to fuss some with water-based dyes using friction (sorta friction...better put, hand applied) And it has been my experience, with any new finish, probably will be a small learning curve to go with it.

-Ace-

[thewoodwhisperer]

I don't do much turning myself, but I was very interested in seeing how this material works just for basic wiping applications on smaller projects. Heck, if it works well I'd even try it on a larger project. So I did a test board using a small piece of mahogany. First impressions are that it definitely has more wiping characteristics. Basically, its thinner than your average water-based finish. So its much easier to spread quickly and evenly. And there is definitely something different in the formulation that I can't quite put my finger on it yet. Due to the thinner nature of the finish, it did seem to take about 5-6 coats before I had a film thickness I was happy with.

So at this point, I think I want to try a few larger test pieces to see what I can get away with. And I probably should mention that if this were a turning, I think this finish would be incredibly easy to apply and it would certainly work as advertised. It does seem to have a warmer appearance than your average water-based finish.....but I don't think anyone will be confused into thinking you used oil-based. Its still very much a water-borne product. But ultimately, so far so good.

[alindsey]

I'd have to play with it to say one way or the other, but I wonder if this is Enduro Var repackaged as Woodturner's Finish.

If you're not familiar with Enduro Var, it's a water based modified urethane that gives the appearance of an oil-based finish. It's wonderful stuff for cherry and walnut especially which need the ambering effect of an oil. Usually those woods, under a regular water based urethane or polyacrylic which dries completely clear, look very cold and lifeless.

Months back we had a rep from General Finishes in the store going through their product line and he mentioned that a lot of turners seemed to like using Enduro Var on the lathe. I have experimented with it myself on a few small projects, pens, little bowls, and have been pretty happy with the results. It doesn't go on like a friction polish and you do need to allow dry time, but you get a much more durable finish, especially if you like a high gloss on turned pieces.

I know, straight from the GF horse's mouth, that "Salad Bowl Finish" is simply Arm R Seal with a different label. Basically he said that vendors and retailers approached them and told them Arm R Seal was growing in popularity amongst turners but that they felt they could sell more of it if it was specifically labeled as a bowl finish, so they did just that.

All this makes me wonder... is the new water based Woodturner's Finish merely Enduro Var with a new label to appeal directly to turners?

[AceHoleInOne]

General Finishes Wood Turners Finish – Over water-based dye and stain.

Curly Maple Wood

First, dye the wood yellow using a paper towel. Then applied some heat with a hair dryer to speed the dry. Sanded the yellow off with 320 paper and repeated 2 more times. This gets the dye down into the curl of the wood.

Second, then apply the Black Cherry stain using toilet tissue directly over the yellow dye. Takes about 3 coats, then when dry, I buff with a paper towel. Should you experience any unevenness with the stain. I dampen the corner of the toilet paper with water and go back over the surface to work it out. If necessary, get more stain on your toilet tissue and wipe back to reactivate your stain.

Third, apply the Wood Turners Finish directly to the wood with lathe speed set on low. I use toilet tissue under the piece to collect the finish and gently kiss the wood with the tissue to work the finish from left to right. With each application, use a fresh piece of toilet tissue.

Fourth, after the 3rd application, I used 320 grit paper to de-nib (careful not to sand through) then wiped the wood clean of dust. Then applied 3 more coats and called it done.

Hint… I used a hair dryer between coats to accelerate the dry, don’t get too hot with the air, and switch between warm/cold air. (this step was not really necessary, because the finish dried fast on it own!)

Fifth, I sanded the finish with 2000 grit Abralon pad, cleaned the surface than applied the wax and buffed using toilet tissue.

Another piece of Curly Maple, playing with blue/yellow/orange water-based dye

Conclusion

I found the product very easy to use.

The more I used it, the better I became applying it, and actually found it was not necessary to sand or buff the finish.

Dries in minutes, even faster if you use the accelerator (a hair dryer ) Was able to completely finish in less that 15 minutes.

General Finishes, I think found itself a real winner!

Next, I will spray the finish on the lathe.

-Ace-

[thewoodwhisperer]

Great write-up Ace! Thanks!

And Allen, I don't think its the exact same product as EnduroVar. Having used both, I can say that to my recollection, EnduroVar is thicker than this new finish. Now they could have simply diluted the finish and threw a new label on it, but at least that's something that helps it work for its intended purpose. Unlike the Salad Bowl Finish situation.

[AceHoleInOne]

Interesting comment Allen, like Marc...I have used both finishes now...I believe, they are indeed 2 different products. Its hard to describe. Its a thin product and after 3 coats, all of the sudden the stuff just builds fast and drys so quick.

That's just my 2 cents

-Ace-

[sbarton22]

I just picked up my bottle yesterday. Going to give it a run through the paces tomorrow. You have me all excited about it now!

[AceHoleInOne]

I have been wondering, as well as reading at other forums, is this new product, that is called Wood Turners Finish, really Enduro-Var? So I decided to e-mail General Finishes and asked if they could/would respond to that? So from the horses mouth...Enduro Var and Wood Turners Finish are different products. The base resin is the same but the formulations and other ingredients are different.

So I guess in all fairness to General Finishes...Is chicken soup, fried chicken and chicken cordon bleu the same recipe? Or do they just use similar ingredients?

-Ace-

[alindsey]

They all taste like pork chops to me...

I want to play with this stuff. Hopefully we'll get some in the store soon. Always looking for a better way to finish turned items, especially bowls. I've got the CA finish down on small things like pens but it's too nasty to do on anything bigger.

I have been wondering, as well as reading at other forums, is this new product, that is called Wood Turners Finish, really Enduro-Var? So I decided to e-mail General Finishes and asked if they could/would respond to that? So from the horses mouth...Enduro Var and Wood Turners Finish are different products. The base resin is the same but the formulations and other ingredients are different.

So I guess in all fairness to General Finishes...Is chicken soup, fried chicken and chicken cordon bleu the same recipe? Or do they just use similar ingredients?

-Ace-

[Larenzo]

Well, I just got my first bottle of WTF. I was looking for some instructions online for application but only found a video on applying it with an airbrush. I might try that but I want use a wipe on application first to compare to the friction polishes I've used. From what I read above there is no need to use heat like with friction polish so I'll have to watch that as I have gotten used to the friction polish. I see Ace applied it with toilet tissue. I'd be afraid of that coming apart too easily but I'll give it a try. Any other experiences with it I'd love to hear and I'll post my experiences here after a few tries with it.

[AceHoleInOne]

Just a heads-up on porous woods.

I recently found out to use General Finishes Enduro-Var as a grain filler under the Wood Turners Finish, no compatibility issues, that's for sure. Apply about 2 heavy coats and sand back, then finish off with the Wood Turners Finish.

-Ace-

[rmac]

Well, I just got my first bottle of WTF.

That's pretty funny. That stuff shows up here all the time, without warning, in 55-gallon drums.

-- Russ

[AceHoleInOne]

That's pretty funny. That stuff shows up here all the time, without warning, in 55-gallon drums.

-- Russ

Now that's funny

-Ace-

[Larenzo]

Well, I like this stuff. It really builds quickly and produces a real nice finish. The one thing I found was that, since I'm wiping it on, you have to put it on with a wet pad, brush, rag or whatever and then stop. I'm used to friction polish where you keep the rag on the surface for a much longer time to melt the finish into the wood. If you don't stop wiping immediately with this stuff it will streak..it dries fast. I'll have to get out my air brush and give it a try, though I did finally figure it out and got some good results on a Christmas Ornament and a bowl that I just finished with it. I'll have to get more of this stuff, that's for sure.

Here's a couple of pictures of the two Items I've finished with it. The bowl isn't quite finished yet, I have yet to turn off the tenon and finish the bottom.

[AceHoleInOne]

Larenzoid:

Nice work !!!

The bowl and ornament turned out nice.

You summed it up exactly. Get the finish to the wood, leave it alone, don't work it.

Question, what wood is the bowl made of, very cool!

-Ace-

[sbarton22]

Can you be a bit more specific? I put some on a rag and apply with the lathe is stopped. then I fire it up and generate heat until I get a gloss shine. That is the recommended technique for the Mylands friction polish, so that's what I went with.

So you are saying just "get it wet" with the lathe spinning? High speed? Low Speed?

[Larenzo]

I'll apply it when it's spinning and when it's stopped. You can't burn it in like Mylands, it isn't a friction polish and it won't shine up that way. I started out by holding the rag against the bottom of the spinning piece then drip it on to the face as it spins. When I get enough on there I move the rag back and forth, still dripping it on until it looks wet all over. Then I'll turn it off and wet the rag some more and wipe it on with the grain to give a wet look. Then stop and let it dry. I did assist drying using a heat gun on low. After the first couple of coats I'll hit it with 1000 grit sand paper lightly, then wipe off the dust and apply another coat. After a couple of coats are on it starts to build. I'll apply a coat, let it dry, then apply another coat without sanding. Before the last coat I'll lightly sand with 2000 grit and then wipe off the dust and apply one, maybe two more coats, always making sure you put it on and leave it to dry, don't keep wiping. I know that's probably a bit confusing, but when you try the stuff you'll see what I mean. It does dry fast but I like using the heat gun so I can go ahead with the process sooner.

Hey Ace, Thanks! That is Ambrosia Sycamore. I was real happy with the colors of the wood. There is one problem in that the finish left a whitish film inside the bug holes. Normally, I'll leave the holes alone and they stay dark, almost black through the finishing process. With this finish it leaves a white film that looks like dust but it doesn't wipe or blow off. I haven't figured out how to fix that problem yet. I'm going to try to just clean the holes and leave them dark, but if it doesn't work out I'll probably fill the holes with either wood dust or crushed stone dust We'll see...The ornament is made with yucatan rosewood for the ball and chinaberry for the cap and icicle.

Here's another picture of the bowl showing the holes and the white deposits in them.

[AceHoleInOne]

Thanks for sharing Larenzoid.

Interesting about the worm holes. Did ya clean the surface good after scuffing, maybe next time some compressed air in the worm holes? Oil/solvent based products do tend to hide that better. All good stuff, I'm sure you will figure out a way to deal with the holes. Maybe you could scuff the surface down and clean the worm holes back out and spot fill with some General Finishes Enduro-Var. Sand back and re-apply your WTF.

Keep us posted.

-Ace-

[sbarton22]

I tried your basic method. It was so easy that I wasn't sure I was doing it right. I need to mix in a light sanding as you suggest, because I was not completely satisfied with ridges from applying while the lathe was moving.

Other than that, I feel like the finish was really nice. I want to try it on a bigger piece ( just tried it on a pen) to see how it works there.

Overall, how do you feel this finish is vs. Mylands? It seems like it is a bit hardier finish. As hard as CA for something like a pen? I can't make a guess to that.

[BillyBrewster]

This is not a friction finish. WTF is more of a water borne poly product. Like the Enduro line of finishes from General. Put on several coats, 6-7, allow to cure, then buff out with a cotton wheel, etc.