ffs1973@gmail.com Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Hello am I mad or ?? The case is that I own a sliding table saw from Felder. A KF741 S pro. ( http://www.felder-sweden.com/se-se/produkter/kombimaskiner/kombimaskin-cf-741-s-professional.html ) But I want to switch it out for a good US cabinet saw. A Saw stop or a Powermatic. Why? well.... It is for a lot of reasons. - The sliding table is made of aluminum and is therefore not magnetic. A lot of jigs an fasteners I like to make is based on magnets. - The T-track slot in the aluminum is big, not your normal US size, and is also rounded in its shape. Not easy to make or buy 3 party accessories. - Felder has no t-track in the cast iron part of the saw. That means that you only have one big t-track slot in the aluminum sliding table.(cross cut sled with one track?-unstable?) The rip fence is not a square box design, but extruded with angles. This makes it difficult to fasten clamps to it, hence a sacrificial fence. - Using the sliding table as a crosscut sled is heavy, no Mather how well the x-roll system is. It is a lot of mass to move. ( mine can be moved 270-290cm, and the total table length is 310cm) - the sliding table area which are on the left hand side of the saw blade is narrow. 10-12" - the saw blade have specialized holes, 1 30mm and to small ones on the side. So you can't but standard saw blades at Amanatools, Rockler, Tenryu etc. And yes I know it is so that the machine can brake the blade without the blade loosening, but Felder takes a hefty price for new ones . - The handles for adjusting the blade tilt and height on the shaper is poorly placed. I should never have bought this machine with out the machine adjustment feature. - The price is high very high. In fact with mine sold I can buy a good cabinet saw, a separat planer, thickness planer, drill machine, mortiser and more from the US, even with tax and transportation. The price on the accessories is also quite high. But maybe I’m mislead ?? does anyone disagree with my feeling that it is better and more easy to work with a cabinet saw.?? It just looks so darn nice Hope somebody who has a cabinet saw can give me a insight of the life with a cabinet saw. With regards T.Robertsen Norway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Looks to me like too much saw and not enough room. I don't own either machine but have used both on and off for many years. I would have said the sliding panel saw was the absolute best machine, that is, until I have been watching Marc's videos and now have a healthy new respect for cabinet saws. It really does boil down to what you need the saw to do. Personally I would go for a top end cabinet saw for versatility. I am saving for this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DALSAW Posted August 4, 2011 Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 I have both types of saws in my cabinet shop. The sliding saw I find very useful for braking down ply, but thats about the only use I have for it. Its a bit of a pain to try and rip small stock on it. That being said If i just had one saw I would go for the regular cabinet saw, If you get a 52" fence it can still handle breaking down ply. I find that ripping and dado operations is also much easer on the cabinet saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 I'm a bit surprised at your finding on the Felder. My old neighbor sold me his Excalibur slider for my Delta cabinet saw and I still lusted after his. I could push a piece of plywood through his with my pinky. It glided without any effort. All that said, I love my set up. I hardly ever use my SCMS because it's very easy to install the miter fence on my Excalibur and make dead square panel cuts. Btw, his is a Minimax and is the only slider I've had any experience using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rihacker Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 I just bought a saw stop and LOVE it. I actually think the perium for the safty is worth it. I ran it over with a caliper and found VERY little error in the entire thing. Its solid, yet with the base mobile. I feel the suction is good, accesories are great and did i mention finger replant is $50,000.00! If power accuracy and safety are your game its worth the $ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Looks to me like too much saw and not enough room. I don't own either machine but have used both on and off for many years. I would have said the sliding panel saw was the absolute best machine, that is, until I have been watching Marc's videos and now have a healthy new respect for cabinet saws. It really does boil down to what you need the saw to do. Personally I would go for a top end cabinet saw for versatility. I am saving for this guy. Dave, I can't make out the make and model of this machine. Who makes it and what model is it? It looks very cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davestanton Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Vic. About to fall asleep in bed and noticed your comment. Responding via iPhone so sorry if it comes through garbled. Go to www.carbatec.com.au and have a look at their table saw section. This saw is their 12 inch and sells for around $3,800. I reckon it's pretty good value for a tool I hope to keep for the next twenty or so years. I think it is built in Taiwan. If it has five year warranty it's Taiwanese. If three year warranty it's Chinese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Slack Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Inca also had a sliding table accessory but is not a popular saw in the US. I like the feature of a sliding table saw and at the same time, I am concerned about the amount of real estate it requires to use it. Another great feature a sliding table saw has is a scoring blade which gives you a great cut. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick LoDico Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Before I gave up that Felder I'd find a used cabinet saw for any function that the slider can't accomplish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffs1973@gmail.com Posted August 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 I just bought a saw stop and LOVE it. I actually think the perium for the safty is worth it. I ran it over with a caliper and found VERY little error in the entire thing. Its solid, yet with the base mobile. I feel the suction is good, accesories are great and did i mention finger replant is $50,000.00! If power accuracy and safety are your game its worth the $ Yes I think I will go for the Sawstop, but I need to check out some tech details. The case is that we have 60Hz power and in the states you have 50Hz. Will this make the Sawstop, stop feature to activate ? The saw looks awsome Thanks for the reply. TR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texfire Posted August 6, 2011 Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 The case is that we have 60Hz power and in the states you have 50Hz. I think you got those two reversed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffs1973@gmail.com Posted August 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 Before I gave up that Felder I'd find a used cabinet saw for any function that the slider can't accomplish. The problem with that is as always the space. In my shop it is getting thight and a cabinet saw will release som floor space. I have a 62m² shop. With a full basement where I am going til do my painting and such. I also have a 2'nd floor which is my office. But the main floor is the 1'st and it is getting full. I see that you are from New Jersey. I do almost all my tool shopping from the states, this since it is very little woodworking tools in Norway. But any way. Is there a good local woodsupplier in your area, preferebly with a internett shop. This to minimize the US transportation costs. Best regards T.Robertsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffs1973@gmail.com Posted August 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 I think you got those two reversed. He he yes indeed you are correct. But the problem is still the same. TR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick LoDico Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 The problem with that is as always the space. In my shop it is getting thight and a cabinet saw will release som floor space. I have a 62m² shop. With a full basement where I am going til do my painting and such. I also have a 2'nd floor which is my office. But the main floor is the 1'st and it is getting full. I see that you are from New Jersey. I do almost all my tool shopping from the states, this since it is very little woodworking tools in Norway. But any way. Is there a good local woodsupplier in your area, preferebly with a internett shop. This to minimize the US transportation costs. Best regards T.Robertsen The closest place to me with the best selection and an internet store is Hearne Hardwoods in Pennsylvania. There's about a kazillion other internet wood stores in the US. http://www.hearnehardwoods.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texfire Posted August 7, 2011 Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Yes I think I will go for the Sawstop, but I need to check out some tech details. The case is that we have 60Hz power and in the states you have 50Hz. Will this make the Sawstop, stop feature to activate ? The saw looks awsome Thanks for the reply. TR I think you got those two reversed. He he yes indeed you are correct. But the problem is still the same. TR Indeed, sorry for the mostly pointless response. But I suspect that only Sawstop will be able to tell you if the difference in Hz will cause the circuitry problems and cause misfires. Probably depends on whether they designed it to deal with that factor. If not, a converter would be a solution but might drive the price of a Sawstop out of reach. One other question, do you think that the space requirements of the sliding saw and cabinet saw are the same? I'm thinking of infeed and outfeed since you're talking about sheet goods, or does the sliding mechanism take up as much room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffs1973@gmail.com Posted August 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2011 Indeed, sorry for the mostly pointless response. But I suspect that only Sawstop will be able to tell you if the difference in Hz will cause the circuitry problems and cause misfires. Probably depends on whether they designed it to deal with that factor. If not, a converter would be a solution but might drive the price of a Sawstop out of reach. One other question, do you think that the space requirements of the sliding saw and cabinet saw are the same? I'm thinking of infeed and outfeed since you're talking about sheet goods, or does the sliding mechanism take up as much room? I have tryed to ask Sawstop in a mail earlier about this problem, but since they do not sell to Europe they just ended the mail with that. But I will send another mail with the approach that I have a sawstop but moving to Europe maybe they will give me a more thorough answer. The question about space requirements is difficult to answer. Yes the saw is big and most important it that it must have room to move on. The table need to move 280cm on both sides of the saw, witch always seem to collide with something I about to make or tools. The sliding table top is at 90cm but it builds quite a lot down also. so the height of other equipment must be lover than 74cm. In my shop I also have to turn on the dust collection on the wall on the right side of the saw. Needless to say the sliding table is "always" slided to the wrong side or when I have started the saw and are about to start cutting I realise that I have forgotten to turn it on This is a problem since one use the left end of the table. Also the felder is not small part friendly, but for cutting sheet gods it is awesome !!! And for a pro shop with high production and repetitive cuts it would work great. I think that with a cabinet saw one can use a assembly table to slide the ply on or make roller stands etc or make the saw a part of the assembly table. It is much more small parts friendly and quicker to change between saw blade and dado blade. 3 party accessories is in abundance, but most of the Felder accessories is pricey. The cabinet saw also have a bigger left blade table to rest material on. It is many more things that for me is a problem so I have decided to try a cabinet saw. If the wife allowes I will postpone to sell the Felder until I have gotten the cabinet saw from Sawstop, Powermatic or Delta. Just so that I can test it before i sell the big Felder. TR. Mvh Torgeir Robertsen Husbyveien 36 7500 Stjørdal Norway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipster Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 I own the same saw and not experienced the same displeasure as you. I have found I need to rethink the way you use jigs and fixtures. Really you don't need as many fixtures as s cabinet saw. I have been with mine for 7 years and would never give it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Hellyar Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I bought Minimax's most popular silding panel saw back in 2005 and I absolutely love it, as I mostly make cabinets and have the need to process a good no of panels, for which this saw excels in. Having said that if I were just starting in woodworking I wouldn't have made this my first table saw. I would have had the same feelings that you are now experiencing. My first table saw was a Delta contractors saw and then I worked my way up to a Powermatic 66, which I still have and use, although mostly for dado cutting. Unfortunately for you it's not a good market right now to be trying to sell your panel saw, at least not here in the USA. I agree with you about the Felder saws, they are too expensive compared to similar quality saws on the market. That's one of the reasons I didn't go with them, the other was that their customer service wasn't as good as most of the other Co's here in the USA. Hopefully you haven't swallowed the European idea that cutting dado's on the table saw is dangerous. There's no faster or safer way to do so ! And with a regular cabinet saw you have more flexibility in doing so. I have managed to work around most of the draw backs of processing real lumber on the panel saw, small as they are, and wouldn't want to be without either saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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