Indy Cindy Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 A friend of mine has a woods that he manages, mostly for firewood but he also mills lumber. I hope to go out there next weekend, but since I am a beginning woodworker and have only used maple purchased at Rockler I don't know what to look for. This is what he has: "1000's of board feet of lumber all of it rough cut...dimensions vary: typical length 4 to 14' typical width 3 to 14" I try to cut at 3/4 or 4/4 but have some 5/4 and several pieces of 8/4 (Red Oak and Black Cherry). I also have a lot of unusual pieces that fall outside these dimensions including turning stock. In descending order based on estimated volume, the types of wood I have include: Black Cherry, Black Walnut, Hickory, Soft Maple, American Elm, Red Oak, White Ash, White Oak, White Pine, Hard Maple, Osage Orange." This is how he dries it: "For the drying process, I typically air dry the wood for several months and then I place the stack under the solar kiln for another month. The problem with relying on a solar kiln is that I have a difficult time getting any heat during the winter. So I do have a back-up at the kiln. Nevertheless, I do manage to run some stacks through the kiln each summer." So which species are particularly desirable? I will get some cherry, but what else should I consider? As I look at the boards what should I be looking for? What else do I need to know? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bois Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Personally, I'd gravitate more toward the stuff that is purely air dried. It sounds to me like this guy has fairly limited capabilities with his kiln anyway, which also would raise a red flag that he might be trying to rush stock through the kiln, which is typically a bad thing. Air dried stock, if stickered and stored properly will give you the best end product, especially Black Walnut (the kiln dried stuff you buy is typically steamed which robs it of its natural colors). Keep an eye out for any bad twisting in the stock, or deep checks at the ends of the boards. Those are all signs of poorly dried stock. Aside from that, you can usually bring a block plane with you to get an idea what's under the rough sawn exterior. Check some local lumber suppliers to get an idea of going rates for the various species to make sure you are getting a good deal. Often a local sawyer will charge about half what a commercial distributor does. As for what species are more desirable, that's largely up to you. Typically in my region, walnut and cherry are the most expensive of those listed, followed by hard maple and white oak, but this varies quite a bit regionally. I'm a bit intrigued by the Elm, since most American Elm was killed by Dutch Elm disease years ago. I've never seen it for sale at least in the Northeastern US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHop Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 So which species are particularly desirable? I will get some cherry, but what else should I consider? Um, not to be a smart... aleck, but I'd say a little of everything. Especially if the price is right. Since you don't have a lot of experience with these materials, if the price is good, get a few to "practice" on. If you want a rough idea of what some prices are, check out Bell Forest's price lists online. Keep in mind these aren't local, but it's a rough start for price comparison. (not having personally purchased from Bell Forest, I can't attest to the quality portion of the pricing. But I do compare/contrast my local yards' pricing to this list periodically, and factor in such things like estimated quality, and shipping. My sedan can't do large orders...) What else do I need to know? Thanks! You're going to have fun? Also, consider taking a small squirt bottle or garden mister bottle with you. Either water or Naptha will illuminate the grain and give you an idea of what it could look like finished. Naptha is flammable, of course, so transporting it is hairy, but water is just as acceptable. I lean towards water, personally, but keep the spray light. You're just looking for grain, not looking to reverse that drying process. If you plan on doing any steam bending, I'd really suggest not using kiln-dried stock. If that's not in your window for a while, I wouldn't worry too much. (But I agree with bois about the walnut. Like he really needs my validation... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Thanks Bois and jHop! My friend prices his lumber 25% off the local lumber yard. I checked those prices and and they are in the ballpark of the Bell Forest pricing, just a bit higher He says he hasn't sold much lumber because his day job gets in the way and he focuses primarily on the more established firewood portion of his wood business. So it's not super cheap, but I see buying from him as an advantage as his wood hasn't been picked over. Now, to pick the wood. I appreciate the tips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimV Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Hi Cindy, just another thought: I wouldn't get any 3/4 stock in the rough unless you have specific plans for any 1/2" boards in your projects. By starting with 3/4 stock, you'll have to surface it and end up with slightly over 1/2" at best. I would recommend staying with 4/4 at a minimum. You can always go thinner, but can make it thicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'd think about getting yourself an affordable moisture meter. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Hi Cindy, just another thought: I wouldn't get any 3/4 stock in the rough unless you have specific plans for any 1/2" boards in your projects. By starting with 3/4 stock, you'll have to surface it and end up with slightly over 1/2" at best. I would recommend staying with 4/4 at a minimum. You can always go thinner, but can make it thicker. Good point. One of the guys in my class had a pretty thin board by the time he got it surfaced. It was really magical though watching him take some reclaimed wood that looked like weathered junk into lovely usable wood. Kind of like opening a Christmas present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 I'd think about getting yourself an affordable moisture meter. Don Don, Along those lines, what numbers am I looking for? The guy says he has a moisture meter -Cindy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 Don, Along those lines, what numbers am I looking for? The guy says he has a moisture meter -Cindy A good rule of thumb is to build with 8% an average for wood furniture in a home is 6 to 10. If you buy a little wet its no big deal just sticker it on a shelf. If you buy excessively dry do the same. Honestly I think everyone should own their own meter. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted August 23, 2011 Report Share Posted August 23, 2011 if you have a decent band saw , jointer and plainer you can get more then rough stock and get it down to something manageable i bought quarter logs of spalted maple and cut them down to 1 inch thick and stickered it for a month that way any moisture still in the wood had left. it was cheaper to buy it that way then to even get rough cut lumber. you might also ask about buying a whole tree which can be cheaper but then you will have a few bad things one you will have tons of one wood, two you have to sticker it for a while and three you will pay a bunch of money in one go. but then your stepping into the park of milling which can be a pain. specifically ask him about figured lumber spalted,curly etc.... they can get you the really nice pieces that even rockler does not carry. you said you are getting cherry but ask if he has any fruit wood and if he does i would buy some to play with haven't done much with fruits but i hear they are great to work with plus its hard to get any of any size. as for the type of wood ask him for some cut off pieces that you can practice with then you can get a feel for the types of wood and how they work. plus you can get as much small stock of domestic wood. always always go through his burn pile i have found my most cherished pieces of lumber in burn piles. pair of handles i made were burl root stock from a hard maple that was almost blood red. a oak knot that had fallen out that looked just like mickey's outline made a greate picture frame from a friends daughter. while these were small and useless for a larger project they made great small projects. where is this guy located if he is simi close to me (kankakee illinois) i might make a trip if the prices are right especially if i can get his cut offs. priceless for the types of projects that i do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 i really enjoy going to a small mill by my house a lot of time i can get stuff given to me if i buy some and ask nicely (bring cookies or pie). a lot of mill's have odd wood just laying around taking up space so you might be able to get some free or very cheap wood just so they can get rid of it and make room for something they can sell. i have a board that was given to me it is rift cut but it is the outside edge and its curved following the tree. useless to a cabinet maker since he will only get about a 2 inch strip of strait wood but i will end up cutting the inside edge flat and leaving the natural edge and then use it as a support for a pair of matching bench's with a 14 inch wide board 8 feet long of spalted maple. going to build it down the road a bit but im hoping that i can then sell or trade them to someone or a business to put in there lobby. thinking a doctor office around here might like them. anyways have fun and try and get as dirty as you can its only realy fun when you go home with more sawdust on you then in the lumber you bought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick LoDico Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm a cherry fan so I'd be looking closely at that. Another thing to consider is "practice" wood. Something extra cheap for adjusting tools for the proper setting before cutting up the good stuff. It's also excellent for shop jigs and cabinets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutabagared Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 I wouldn't shy away from stock dried in a solar kiln. It's inherently difficult to dry stock in it too rapidly unless the loads are too small for the area of the solar collector, which I doubt in this case if he's trying to maximize the summer drying season. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMR Posted August 24, 2011 Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 Hi Cindy, here are a couple of links to two guys that sell a couple of hours north of you. I have purchased some wood from hickory and oak in MI. but not yet from the guy in Middlebury, IN. I'm going to try him next. Both have very fair prices and had many good things said about them on woodnets forum. They both on occasion do make deliveries to Indy. Hickory and Oak Teaberry in Middlebury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2011 if you have a decent band saw , jointer and plainer you can get more then rough stock and get it down to something managable I'm pretty limited, I don't have any power tools of my own, I use the ones at class. And storage space for large amounts of wood is an issue. where is this guy located if he is simi close to me (kankakee illinois) i might make a trip if the prices are right especialy if i can get his cut offs. priceless for the types of projects that i do. He lives on the west side of Indianapolis, his forest is NW of Indy possibly in the Crawfordsville area, but I don't know yet for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 My buying trip was today! I purchased 4/4 rough cut boards (which I measure to be 1 1/8"), primarily cherry with some walnut and sugar maple. He will be delivering to my house the 3 - 10' long cherry boards which are between 5" and 7" wide. I also got some 4' long shorts, 3 each in cherry, walnut and sugar maple. For those who are interested I am attaching pictures of the shorts. At least I am going to try, we'll see if that works. Thanks for all your help. Now to decide what to make with it all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 looks nice did you find anything in a acrap/fire pile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Cindy Posted August 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 looks nice did you find anything in a acrap/fire pile? He mentioned tossing in some practice wood, but by the time I got around to leaving we forgot about it. I was out there for 4.5 hours picking out wood, touring the property, shooting the breeze. I'll ask about it when he delivers my 10' boards. It was a great day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckkisser Posted August 28, 2011 Report Share Posted August 28, 2011 i know i realy love the lumber part of wood working i avoid the lumber areas of stores because then i will spend hours digging through the boards. glad you had a good run have to let us know what you decide to build besides a busniss card holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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